Originally posted by Galan007
When else have the barriers of Hypertime been shattered by a single blast? 😕
Iirc amped SBP broke a similar barrier(I think DC did away with calling it "hypertime" at that time) during IC. Granted it did take him many blows, but I was referencing the fact that it has been broken.
In Gog's case I wasn't really surprised he breached the walls of hypertime since his masters granted him power to affect timelines. That was their hope after all. It was an uber feat considering it was done in one attack.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17The 'walls' Prime repeatedly struck for hours on end =/= Hypertime -- but even if that were the case, it still isn't remotely close to what Gog did.
Single blast? Not sure.Iirc amped SBP broke a similar barrier(I think DC did away with calling it "hypertime" at that time) during IC. Granted it did take him many blows, but I was referencing the fact that it has been broken.
Tbh, the only characters I am aware of that can alter Hypertime with any degree of ease, are 5D Imps... Gog's feat is actually quite unprecedented.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Granted, the Quintessence gifted Gog with the ability to dimension-hop. However, they did not purposefully endow him with the ability to manipulate Hypertime on *any* level -- let alone shatter it's boundaries with a SINGLE blast.... Heck, they didn't even know Hypertime existed at all, lol.
In Gog's case I wasn't really surprised he breached the walls of hypertime since his masters granted him power to affect timelines. That was their hope after all. It was an uber feat considering it was done in one attack.
Indeed it was a very uber showing for Gog/the staff. Said 'uberness' + the fact that Mxy was completely unprepared for the blast, is why I do not consider it a low showing for Mxy at all. /shrug
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Whilst you may say it was a high end feat for Gog (and it definitely isn't a LOW one, by any means...)He has so few appearances, that you cant say if its high or low. If a a character has five appearances, and in one of them he stomps the Spectre, say, you cant say it was an outlier.
Same reason why Hyperion Now in his first year of appearances shoudnt be considered skyfather+++ omg strength level. Sometimes common sense has to be applied.
That's like asking me if im prepared to take Masterson Thor vs Spiderman 😛
Prob is a low showing for Mxy, especially once you take all his highs. But my point is, its not necessarily a high point for Gog, but his average.
Does he have low showings, to even them out, for example? It's like taking Rulk during his Watcher KO period...and only taking that. Sure, later on he's watered down, but until Gog has a similar watering period, you cant say its an outlier.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's like asking me if im prepared to take Masterson Thor vs Spiderman 😛Prob is a low showing for Mxy, especially once you take all his highs. But my point is, its not necessarily a high point for Gog, but his average.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Had Mxy been prepared for the blast, sure. But he wasn't, so no.
R u prepared to take Gog > Mxy?
The *only* wtf moment for me is the fact that Mxy didn't just insta-reform(which we know he can undoubtedly do.) However, he may not have been able to reform because of the exotic nature of the staff/blast, or more likely, because the writer just didn't give a f*ck. Either way, I honestly don't have a problem with the staff causing that initial 'harm' to Mxy -- it *was* a very specific type of scenario, after all. That's all I'm saying.
We can argue the duration in which he stayed 'injured' all day long, though, because *that* side of things makes a lot less sense. 😛
Originally posted by Galan007
The 'walls' Prime repeatedly struck for hours on end =/= Hypertime -- but even if that were the case, it still isn't remotely close to what Gog did.Tbh, the only characters I am aware of that can alter Hypertime with any degree of ease, are 5D Imps... Gog's feat is actually quite unprecedented.
Granted, the Quintessence gifted Gog with the ability to dimension-hop. However, they did not purposefully endow him with the ability to manipulate Hypertime on *any* level -- let alone shatter it's boundaries with a SINGLE blast.... Heck, they didn't even know Hypertime existed at all, lol.
Indeed it was a very uber showing for Gog/the staff. Said 'uberness' + the fact that Mxy was completely unprepared for the blast, is why I do not consider it a low showing for Mxy at all. /shrug
Kingdom
Infinite Crisis
Hypertime, as it was defined in The Kingdom, represents the ENTIRETY of the DCU- past, present, and future. This includes ALL possible realms/dimensions/universes that comprise DC's infinitude, along with every possible alternate universe as well... Heck, that splash-page shows us that even 5th dimensional beings are blanketed by Hypertime(though they absolute have control/mastery over it):
Prime punching the walls of Limbo only affected one universe directly, and in conjunction with Alex Luthor's tamperings, played a part in the return of the multiverse during IC -- but remember, the multiverse was only limited to a very finite 52 universes at the time, whereas the whole of Hypertime is infinite. So even IF you believe those walls represented the whole of Hypertime(which I disagree with, but to each his own), Prime's feat was still VASTLY different than Gog's... Literally not comparable at all.
Prime sat there and struck the walls of Limbo for hours before he truly broke through them:
Conversely, Gog shattered the barriers of Hypertime with a single blast. Again: night and day difference. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
Hypertime, as it was defined in The Kingdom, represents the ENTIRETY of the DCU- past, present, and future. This includes ALL possible realms/dimensions/universes that comprise DC's infinitude, along with every possible alternate universe as well... Heck, that splash-page shows us that even 5th dimensional beings are blanketed by Hypertime(though they absolute have control/mastery over it):Prime punching the walls of Limbo only affected one universe directly, and in conjunction with Alex Luthor's tamperings, played a part in the return of the multiverse during IC -- but remember, the multiverse was only limited to a very finite 52 universes at the time, whereas the whole of Hypertime is infinite. So even IF you believe those walls represented the whole of Hypertime(which I disagree with, but to each his own), Prime's feat was still VASTLY different than Gog's... Literally not comparable at all.
Prime sat there and struck the walls of Limbo for hours before he truly broke through them:
Conversely, Gog shattered the barriers of Hypertime with a single blast. Again: night and day difference. 👆
Now regarding "hypertime", I maintain that it the limbo in Infinite Crisis was one and the same as depicted in The Kingdom.
Look here at the final page of The Kingdom #2.
Behold Kal-L of earth 2.
Seen again a few year later in Infinite Crisis.
Here's a little article that has Morrison describing the conception of hypertime and it's connection with Waid's The Kingdom.
http://funnybookbabylon.com/2008/01/09/hits-off-the-source-part-two-hyper-crimes-in-hyper-time-with-superboyman-prime/
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Disagree. I think you're relying too much on visuals, and not considering all of the cosmological facts.
Now regarding "hypertime", I maintain that it the limbo in Infinite Crisis was one and the same as depicted in The Kingdom.
The walls of Limbo only represented/affected the happenings within the mainstream universe and its timelines. In conjunction with the machinations of Alex Luthor, Prime punching said walls ultimately splintered the mainstream universe into a 'multiverse' comprised of a very finite 52 individual universes... But like I said before: Hypertime in its entirety = absolutely everything within the whole of DC comics. ALL possible universeS(inc. alternates.) ALL possible dimensionS. ALL possible timelineS; past/present/future. etc. etc. It is a completely unbounded infinitude:
tl;dr
The *most* you could realistically argue is that the Limbo walls represented a very small fraction of Hypertime's totality, as striking/breaking them only affected one universe directly. However, the walls clearly did not represent the whole of Hypertime, as infinite universes/timelines/dimensions/etc. were not affected.
...Hopefully all of that was clear. 🤓
Originally posted by Galan007Scans?
It's always difficult to definitively gauge alternate versions of any character -- let alone Galactus.Either way, a full-force punch from that version of Galactus sent OKT hurling completely through the earth and into the moon(think he hit the moon so hard it cracked in off), yet he shrugged it off just fine. With that in mind, I don't think it'd be a wise decision for Gog to sit there throw fisticuffs with OKT, given the old man's ridiculous durability. However, physicality isn't the only ability at Gog's disposal, either.
Originally posted by Galan007
Disagree. I think you're relying too much on visuals, and not considering all of the cosmological facts.The walls of Limbo only represented/affected the happenings within the mainstream universe and its timelines. In conjunction with the machinations of Alex Luthor, Prime punching said walls ultimately splintered the mainstream universe into a 'multiverse' comprised of a very finite 52 individual universes... But like I said before: Hypertime in its entirety = absolutely everything within the whole of DC comics. ALL possible universeS(inc. alternates.) ALL possible dimensionS. ALL possible timelineS; past/present/future. etc. etc. It is a completely unbounded infinitude:
tl;dr
The *most* you could realistically argue is that the Limbo walls represented a very small fraction of Hypertime's totality, as striking/breaking them only affected one universe directly. However, the walls clearly did not represent the whole of Hypertime, as infinite universes/timelines/dimensions/etc. were not affected....Hopefully all of that was clear. 🤓
Interesting scan though which I'll refer back to was of Alexander Luthor viewing different parts of his life at different time frames, but never going beyond a certain time for story purposes. Again looks like a version of "hypertime", but following a simpler less complex explanation of a multiverse. His quote of "a place of endless yesterdays and tomorrows" is particularly interesting. Shrug.
And it wasn't until Morrison was back in the fold during Final Crisis and later on in Multiversity in which "hypertime" was given greater emphasis once again. It was always there for obvious reasons just not directly tackled or properly referenced during IC.
Anyways my last thoughts on this.
I can agree that the Limbo walls may have represented a small fraction of Hypertime's totality, but they just didn't represent the whole.
As mentioned: Prime punching/breaking the Limbo walls only affected one universe directly, whereas Hypertime in it's entirety represents infinite universes/realms/dimensions/etc. 👆
