Who and what is Valkorion?

Started by Beniboybling9 pages

It's pretty simple yeah. "Tenebrae" masquerading as Vitiate was a Sith Lord. "Tenebrae" masquerading as Valkorion was a Sith entity, but indeed unaffiliated with any Sith Order. Both were practitioners of the dark side, and both are inferior to Plags and Palps.

Yeah, because he was a pure blooded Sith species, not because he's a Sith Lord.

E.I. - apparitions being called a human spirit despite it not being a human anymore. Dude clearly isn't a Sith by Valkorion, as per his words, his credo and others during KotFE.

Uh huh, like I said I agree with you that Valkorion is not a Sith Lord (though Vitiate certainly is), but as an ancient Sith entity, present tense, Valkorion remains at the very least recognised as "of the Sith" in whatever form.

So a ghost, a la Kayako Saeki, is still a human, because it has been referred to a human entity in the present tense, and therefore a quote referring to, let's say, Usain Bolt being the fatest human alive applies to it?

'cuz that literally what you're saying here.

No, because a human ghost is dead. 🙁

Personally though, I don't recall saying anything like that. 🙂

But still a human, per what you're claiming with Valkorion.

What do you think I'm claiming about Valkorion? All I said is that he is of the Sith, in some shape or form. Is this not the case? mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uhuh, sadly the source material doesn't have an expiry date. So I'll await proof that Vitiate has been retconned into no longer being considered a Sith Lord by the history books before dismissing them. 🙂

A book is only valid for the content it covers.

We can use TOR Encyclopedia to learn about Vitiate's history but this book doesn't covers the content of Shadow of Revan, Rise of the Emperor, Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne. So much has changed since the Great Galactic War that TOR Encyclopedia is no longer a definitive source for evaluating Vitiate's exploits (and his abandonment of Sith faction).

I am sorry but sometimes you need to look at things from real-world perspective to reach an informed conclusion about them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Until then though:

"As evidenced by those few Lords who had managed to perpetuate their spirits after physical death-foremost among them Emperor Vitiate, who was said to have lived a thousand years-the ancient Sith had come halfway across that bridge."


Darth Plagueis doesn't knows much about Vitiate. And neither this novel is a definitive source for evaluating Vitiate due to limited knowledge of its author about the character in question.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
"An ancient Dark Lord of the Sith named Darth Vitiate destroyed all life on Nathema with a ritual designed to grant him immortality."

👆


Again, this book covers only the Lord Vitiate incarnation. Nothing after that.

And this book doesn't declares Palpatine as the strongest Sith Lord in a definitive way. So there's that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What do you think I'm claiming about Valkorion? All I said is that he is of the Sith, in some shape or form. Is this not the case? mmm

In the sense that he's of pure-blooded Sith origin when he became an entity, the same way a human spirit was a human before it became a apparition, yes.

But I'm sure the Plagueis blurb only covers beings of the Sith Lord variety.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Appartion? So Valkorion is just an illusion now? OK. 🙂

On the other hand no, Valkorion is a living entity who takes living forms. Get a clue.


Wrong, my friend.

Valkorion developed the capability to exist as an apparition with the power to possess living beings and use them as puppets of his will. Valkorion seized to be a living being when he shed his mortal coil for the first time; he cheated death at this point.

Valkorion was a living being up to the point of Revan only.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
But I'm sure the Plagueis blurb only covers beings of the Sith Lord variety.

Living beings at that.

honestly these arguments are laem.

no one is ever gonna budge on their stance, so why even bother repeating the same thing in ad infinitum on every thread?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
In the sense that he's of pure-blooded Sith origin when he became an entity, the same way a human spirit was a human before it became a apparition, yes.

But I'm sure the Plagueis blurb only covers beings of the Sith [b]Lord variety. [/B]

I'm not even talking about the blurb babe, just making some general observations. In which case a potential reading yeah, could also be because he was a Sith Lord before he became an entity as well, or perhaps another reason.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
honestly these arguments are laem.

no one is ever gonna budge on their stance, so why even bother repeating the same thing in ad infinitum on every thread?

Wrong DC, everyday the TOR brigade comes up with new and innovative ways to fail. 🙁

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wrong, my friend.

Valkorion developed the capability to exist as an apparition with the power to possess living beings and use them as puppets of his will. Valkorion seized to be a living being when he shed his mortal coil for the first time; he cheated death at this point.

Valkorion was a living being up to the point of Revan only.

Quite, Valkorion hollowed out living beings to house his life force, cheated death to stay alive, only to eventually perish i.e. stop living.

Honestly its really sad that its comes to this, that I actually have to explain to the TOR phags how Valkorion is alive. facepalm

EDIT:

Case closed. Kek.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A book is only valid for the content it covers.
A made up rule, any entry into continuity is valid for the entire breadth of that continuity. That's how it works.

We can use TOR Encyclopedia to learn about Vitiate's history but this book doesn't covers the content of Shadow of Revan, Rise of the Emperor, Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne. So much has changed since the Great Galactic War that TOR Encyclopedia is no longer a definitive source for evaluating Vitiate's exploits (and his abandonment of Sith faction).
The SWTORE remains a definitive source on TOR and indeed Vitiate as long as it 1. remains part of Legends continuity 2. is not retconned by newer sources. Try to understand that again, sourcebooks don't have expiry dates.

I am sorry but sometimes you need to look at things from real-world perspective to reach an informed conclusion about them.
In which case I'd advise on reading up on how continuity works.

Darth Plagueis doesn't knows much about Vitiate. And neither this novel is a definitive source for evaluating Vitiate due to limited knowledge of its author about the character in question.
Not the point, the point is that a student of Sith history, the fact that Plagueis recognised Vitiate as a Sith Lord reflects the fact that the (historical) record too acknowledged him as such, just as the record had Nihilus down as a Sith Lord as well, despite the reality being more complex.

Note: the same record has Darth Plagueis down as the most powerful of said Sith Lords. 👆

Again, this book covers only the Lord Vitiate incarnation. Nothing after that.
It covers Vitiate's feat on Nathema, it refers to Emperor Vitiate holistically AKA a Dark Lord of the Sith.

And this book doesn't declares Palpatine as the strongest Sith Lord in a definitive way. So there's that.
But favours him nonetheless, yeah.

Why not just ask BW on the matter to see what's definite? Simple question, is Vitiate/Valk more powerful than RotsRotjDark Empire Sidious?

Yeah, why have debates when we can just ask people who's better.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why not just ask BW on the matter to see what's definite? Simple question, is Vitiate/Valk more powerful than RotsRotjDark Empire Sidious?
To which they would either offer 1. their opinion 2. a non-answer. 😬

Well it's not as if you guys haven't ask authors before. Or used quotes. I just find this whole back and forth thing to get old.

About there own works yeah. And even then, its not strictly canon.