Look at my Sig folks...
Those are extremely advanced killing machines on display; certainly more advanced than Ultron or his Clones based on their on-screen combat feats...
Ultron nor his Clones have come anywhere near that level of precision or coordination during combat...
And they are doing that (killing Iceman) without using any of their powers of adaptation...
😉
Ultron and Vision don't run on predetermined protocols or routines. They're AIs that have evolved to the point of self-awareness, capable of forming independent ideas and thoughts far beyond their base programming. I.E. they can choose how to utilise their available resources across an array of different areas, beyond merely combat.
Arguing that Sentinels are more advanced, because they can arguably do one thing better, despite the fact that the other AIs in question can do far more than that one thing, is faulty.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Ultron and Vision don't run on predetermined protocols or routines. They're AIs that have evolved to the point of self-awareness, capable of forming independent ideas and thoughts far beyond their base programming. I.E. they can choose how to utilise their available resources across an array of different areas, beyond merely combat.Arguing that Sentinels are more advanced, because they can arguably do one thing better, despite the fact that the other AIs in question can do far more than that one thing, is faulty.
I dont think so; it just demonstrates a more focused area of optimization on the part of the Sentinels (instead of spreading their processing power around to multiple area's, its all focused into one)...
And they dont "arguably" do one thing better; based on on-screen showings, they do combat ALOT better than Ultron Prime or his Clones in AoU...
They coordinate better, they fight solo better, they kill FAR more effectively and efficiently...
Their attacks are much more precise and arent prone to CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) and error and capture foes (like Ultron Prime stupidly did to Black Widow in Age of Ultron) like great idiots (thats supposed to be "more advanced" AI!? LoL...) opposed to killing them outright.
The closest a Future Sentinel comes to that type of behavior is pausing for a few seconds to evaluate your combat capability before they execute you...
The Ultron Clones were complete morons who couldnt fight worth a dam, and Prime wasnt much better despite its "more advanced AI"...
LoL...
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's the equivalent of saying an Olympic sprinter is a better overall athlete than an Olympic decathlete, because they can run a 100m race more quickly.
Ah, I like your example as it supports my argument... 🙂
In your example its a fallacy to just flat out state that the decathlete is a better athlete than the sprinter just because he's more well rounded as well isnt it?
😉
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thats pure speculation...Even the pro "Ultron hacks the Sentinels" clan cant even give a straight answer as to how this would be done under combat conditions...
Obviously he'd have to interface with them while fighting the Future Sentinels themselves, avoiding Magneto's power (good luck with that), and dealing with Apocalypse...
In other words its pure BS; BS that was generated by Silent Master...
According to him, Ultron would just magically, instantly, hack them all and turn them against Mags and Apoc...
Of course Ultron has never successfully hacked anything as unconventional or advanced as a Future Sentinel...
And Ultron is also 0-1 when it comes to hacking techo-organic beings (and the Sentinels themselves are techo-organic)...
Despite that, they are still grasping at straws as they just dont want to admit that the Xmen foes are clearly superior to the Avenger foes and dont want to concede defeat...
👆
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I dont think so; it just demonstrates a more focused area of optimization on the part of the Sentinels (instead of spreading their processing power around to multiple area's, its all focused into one)...
You don't think what exactly? I simply said they are self-aware. What is there to disagree with? It's just fact.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
And they dont "arguably" do one thing better; based on on-screen showings, they do combat ALOT better than Ultron Prime or his Clones in AoU...They coordinate better, they fight solo better, they kill FAR more effectively and efficiently...
Their attacks are much more precise and arent prone to CIS (Character Induced Stupidity) and error and capture foes (like Ultron Prime stupidly did to Black Widow in Age of Ultron) like great idiots (thats supposed to be "more advanced" AI!? LoL...) opposed to killing them outright.
The closest a Future Sentinel comes to that type of behavior is pausing for a few seconds to evaluate your combat capability before they execute you...
The Ultron Clones were complete morons who couldnt fight worth a dam, and Prime wasnt much better despite its "more advanced AI"...
LoL...
More than AI goes into their combat effectiveness. Powersets matter as well. Sentinels have greater powers than Ultron drones. What do you think would have happened to the Avengers if the Ultron drones had Sentinel-like powers, when Prime made them all attack at once? Ultron also showed emotions, which is why he made some of his choices. To have what are essentially human traits in a machine, as well as independent thoughts, ideas etc, shows extremely advanced AI. And, at the end of the day, it took a combined attack from Vision, Iron Man and Thor to even start damaging him. An attack like that would turn a Sentinel into scrap.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ah, I like your example as it supports my argument... 🙂In your example its a fallacy to just flat out state that the decathlete is a better athlete than the sprinter just because he's more well rounded as well isnt it?
😉
It does not support your argument at all. You claimed the Sentinels had better AI. All I did was point out Ultron and Vision are self-aware and capable of going beyond base programming, and have greater versatility. I made no claims about which was better in either of those posts. Out of the two of us, you are the one making claims about which AI is more advanced. So, all you have done now, especially with your second statement there, is concede that you are applying fallacious reasoning to back your stance. Good job.
Edit: Also, off topic, but why do you abuse ellipsis dots?
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You don't think what exactly? I simply said they are self-aware. What is there to disagree with? It's just fact.More than AI goes into their combat effectiveness. Powersets matter as well. Sentinels have greater powers than Ultron drones. What do you think would have happened to the Avengers if the Ultron drones had Sentinel-like powers, when Prime made them all attack at once? Ultron also showed emotions, which is why he made some of his choices. To have what are essentially human traits in a machine, as well as independent thoughts, ideas etc, shows extremely advanced AI. And, at the end of the day, it took a combined attack from Vision, Iron Man and Thor to even start damaging him. An attack like that would turn a Sentinel into scrap.
It does not support your argument at all. You claimed the Sentinels had better AI. All I did was point out Ultron and Vision are self-aware and capable of going beyond base programming, and have greater versatility. I made no claims about which was better in either of those posts. Out of the two of us, you are the one making claims about which AI is more advanced. So, all you have done now, especially with your second statement there, is concede that you are applying fallacious reasoning to back your stance. Good job.
Edit: Also, off topic, but why do you abuse ellipsis dots?
I claimed that the Sentinels had better AI as pertains to combat; which of course is 100% true...
And yeah, that combined attack would turn a single Sentinel into scrap...and then at some point the remaining Sentinels would adapt to them...then they'd all die just like they did (Vision included) in the comics...
As pertains my writing style, its unique; no one writes like this...no one.
It is one of my defining charcateristics and I like it...
Besides, it neatly avoids long run on sentences and makes things easy to digest...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I claimed that the Sentinels had better AI as pertains to [b]combat; which of course is 100% true...[/B]
So, then how is that at all relevant to a hacking discussion? Anyway, I don't even necessarily agree with that, at least where Vision is concerned. Hacking military codes, as JARVIS, to remove the potential risk of Ultron launching nukes all over the planet, separating Ultron Prime from the swarm, and moving him away from the killswitch to drop Sokovia (as he was the biggest threat), and isolating him, as well as cutting him from the web to prevent him escaping during the final battle, using phasing to get past the huge obstacle of Giant Man in CW etc. shows very clear combat awareness and intelligence.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
And yeah, that combined attack would turn a single Sentinel into scrap...and then at some point the remaining Sentinels would adapt to them...then they'd all die just like they did (Vision included) in the comics...
Based on what? When did Fox Sentinels show that they could adapt to pseudo-magic and/or advanced technology? Otherwise I can say that Tony Stark studies the scrapped Sentinel and figures out a way to shut all the rest down.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
As pertains my writing style, its unique; no one writes like this...no one.It is one of my defining charcateristics and I like it...
Besides, it neatly avoids long run on sentences and makes things easy to digest...
It doesn't really help with sentences. You could replace all those ellipsis with fullstops and it would make zero difference. Just saying.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
So, then how is that at all relevant to a hacking discussion? Anyway, I don't even necessarily agree with that, at least where Vision is concerned. Hacking military codes, as JARVIS, to remove the potential risk of Ultron launching nukes all over the planet, separating Ultron Prime from the swarm, and moving him away from the killswitch to drop Sokovia (as he was the biggest threat), and isolating him, as well as cutting him from the web to prevent him escaping during the final battle, using phasing to get past the huge obstacle of Giant Man in CW etc. shows very clear combat awareness and intelligence.Based on what? When did Fox Sentinels show that they could adapt to pseudo-magic and/or advanced technology? Otherwise I can say that Tony Stark studies the scrapped Sentinel and figures out a way to shut all the rest down.
It doesn't really help with sentences. You could replace all those ellipsis with fullstops and it would make zero difference. Just saying.
Fox's Sentinels had Spidermans wall climbing; thats evidence enough that they had adapted to a non mutant in the past...
In the comics they could adapt to anything; seeing as how they adapted to Spidey, I see no reason to think that their limitless powers of adaptation was not intact...
Tony died to them in the comic as well btw... 😉
You are entitled to your opinion on my writing style, but I think I'll continue to writing as is...
🙂
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Fox's Sentinels had Spidermans wall climbing; thats evidence enough that they had adapted to a non mutant in the past...
Sorry, but this is pure nonsense. Being able to climb walls doesn't automatically mean Spiderman, especially since Movie Spiderman exists in a totally different universe, owned by a different company (Sony). It's far more likely that if it came from anywhere, it came from Beast, seeing as he could scale different surfaces, and was confirmed by Logan to have been killed in the future. Or hell, even Toad. I know he got blasted by lightning, but I don't recall his death ever being confirmed after X1.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
In the comics they could adapt to anything; seeing as how they adapted to Spidey, I see no reason to think that their limitless powers of adaptation was not intact...Tony died to them in the comic as well btw... 😉
Comics are completely irrelevant to the Movie Versus forum, unless they are specific canon, tie-in comics. You know this, so I don't see why you keep dragging this up. I already addressed the Spiderman claim.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Sorry, but this is pure nonsense. Being able to climb walls doesn't automatically mean Spiderman, especially since Movie Spiderman exists in a totally different universe, owned by a different company (Sony). It's far more likely that [B]if it came from anywhere, it came from Beast, seeing as he could scale different surfaces, and was confirmed by Logan to have been killed in the future. Or hell, even Toad. I know he got blasted by lightning, but I don't recall his death ever being confirmed after X1.Comics are completely irrelevant to the Movie Versus forum, unless they are specific canon, tie-in comics. You know this, so I don't see why you keep dragging this up. I already addressed the Spiderman claim. [/B]
Pure nonsense...eh?
I was going to write up a good rebuttal, but why do that when I can let the movie talk for me? 🙂
Btw, I've never seen Beast do this at around the 40 second mark; it only lasts for a few secs, but you can call it what you want...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Pure nonsense...eh?I was going to write up a good rebuttal, but why do that when I can let the movie talk for me? 🙂
Btw, I've never seen Beast do this at around the 40 second mark; it only lasts for a few secs, but you can call it what you want...
Yes, claiming it is Spiderman is pure nonsense, considering the universes are separate. The closest they came to crossing over was when there were discussions, way back when, of having MaGuire Spiderman and Wolverine make cameos in the respective films. But none of that ever actually translated to the bigscreen. Never mind that that version of Spiderman was no longer even canon by the time DoFP arrived.
The Sentinels killed countless thousands of mutants. Multiple mutants have displayed wall climbing abilities, such as Toad, and some of the fodder in Magneto's army from X3. So, the actual evidence suggests that the ability came from a mutant, if it was copied from anywhere. The Sentinels also showed the ability to shapeshift limbs and things, so there is no guarantee it is even a mutant ability at all.
So, other than the fact that it is an ability Spiderman shares, what actual concrete evidence do you have that it actually came from him?
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yes, claiming it is Spiderman is pure nonsense, considering the universes are separate. The closest they came to crossing over was when there were discussions, way back when, of having MaGuire Spiderman and Wolverine make cameos in the respective films. But none of that ever actually translated to the bigscreen. Never mind that that version of Spiderman was no longer even canon by the time DoFP arrived.The Sentinels killed countless thousands of mutants. Multiple mutants have displayed wall climbing abilities, such as Toad, and some of the fodder in Magneto's army from X3. So, the actual evidence suggests that the ability came from a mutant, if it was copied from anywhere. The Sentinels also showed the ability to shapeshift limbs and things, so there is no guarantee it is even a mutant ability at all.
So, other than the fact that it is an ability Spiderman shares, what actual concrete evidence do you have that it actually came from him?
You're right, it could have come from someone else, but you gotta admit, the power is identical...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You're right, it could have come from someone else, but you gotta admit, the power is identical...
Well, it's also identical to the wall-climbing abilities some mutants have shown.
On a random note, looking through some clips and things, there is one painfully bad continuity error in X-Men: The Last Stand. When Magneto drops the bridge to the island, it's still a bright and shiny day, but it suddenly turns to night the moment they attack. 😆
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's the equivalent of saying an Olympic sprinter is a better overall athlete than an Olympic decathlete, because they can run a 100m race more quickly.
it's more like saying someone is a better linguist because they are better at speaking English, even though that is the only language they speak. compared to the guy that speaks 6,500 languages.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I claimed that the Sentinels had better AI as pertains to [b]combat; which of course is 100% true...[/B]
Thank you for admitting that they only have better AI as pertains to combat.
And like I said, we've already had AI for commercial combat simulations for a few decades now in the form of fighting games. We've only very recently been able to achieve a commercial version for an AI that handles human conversation in the form of Siri - and even Siri isn't as adept at her job as some of the fighting AI's are at theirs.
The difference in timeline of these two technologies should give you an idea of how much more difficult it is to program AI that converses as opposed to AI that simply fights.
Bottom line is, the sentinels have nowhere near shown the level of intelligence that Vision, Ultron or Jarvis have shown. That's a fact.
Originally posted by juggerman
How long would it take for Ultron to hack the Sentinels? I think he would only need contact with one to access them all right? I highly doubt he would need to grab them all one by one.
Hmm... I never thought of that. The biggest obstacle that Ultron would have faced in trying to hack the sentinels would be how to get into their systems. They're not connected to the internet that I know of so what "door" would Ultron have to go in?
But now that you mentioned it, it does make sense that as soon as he's able to hack one then he potentially opens up their entire communication systems to be hacked.
Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Also Magneto From The Days Of Future Past Film was severly weakened, he got cured of his mutant powers in xmen the last stand and it came back slowly but only a little bit.
Where is that said? Not doubting you; I'm genuinely curious.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Pure nonsense...eh?I was going to write up a good rebuttal, but why do that when I can let the movie talk for me? 🙂
Btw, I've never seen Beast do this at around the 40 second mark; it only lasts for a few secs, but you can call it what you want...
Nightcrawler.