Darth Nihilus vs Darth Sidious

1. Correction: Kreia claims that there's no defense. She isn't omniscient and her word doesn't prohibit the discovery of a defense by an infinitely more powerful and knowledgeable Force user than herself thousands of years into the future.

Regardless, I accept the notion that Nihilus' Drain could affect Sidious as Krayt's did Abeloth; I just don't think it'll end the fight or anything close. No defense does not mean it's an instakill, lmfao. Even without a defense, Sidious can resist it. Defense and resistance are different things. Hence, it could work, but slowly and without any game-changing consequence at first. That leaves Sidious with ample opportunity to strike the Lord of Hunger down.

It wasn't a hundred Jedi, just the majority of "less than a hundred Jedi". Of which we have only three of note. Not impossible to believe, especially since they were taken by surprise.

2. That's an appeal from incredulity. Whatever seems implausible to you is not evidence. The fact that Apocalype was published afters Legacy might be why.

1. Revan already existed tho?

You're welcome to think that if you want, I was just informing you that the description of how the attack actually works runs contrary to that. You have nothing to support your conclusion that it would slowly and insignificantly impact him and you're contradicting the text. You don't slowly sever someone from the force.

Still far too many.

2. Good point. However there is still that fact that the circumstances make it impossible to compare the techniques.

Originally posted by Nephthys
1. Revan already existed tho?

What does that have to do with anything?

You're welcome to think that if you want, I was just informing you that the description of how the attack actually works runs contrary to that. You have nothing to support your conclusion that it would slowly and insignificantly impact him and you're contradicting the text. You don't slowly sever someone from the force.

Then Nihilus would simply fail to sever Palpatine's connection ala Odan-Urr vs Exar Kun.

I'm making no contradictions whatsoever. Nihilus' power has yet to be tested against a more powerful being than himself.

Still far too many.

An amped Nihilus with prep vs well under fifty incomparable Jedi who were taken by surprise. Not hard to imagine.

It'd probably look something like Krayt's Drain against Luke.

Just stronger. Although resisting it will be Sidious' top priority.

Are you guys sure that you haven't simply named various abilities as a drain, and then compared them on the basis of that naming and not on the basis of how the abilities actually work?

I mean, is Nihilus' ability ever even referred to as a drain by a canon source? You even have an ability (gameplay mechanics) named Force Drain in that very game, which is obviously not the same thing.

Well, he uses the Force Drain animation...

And he does feed on his victims. What else would you call it? Lightning?

Originally posted by S W LeGenD
Are you guys sure that you haven't simply named various abilities as a drain, and then compared them on the basis of that naming and not on the basis of how the abilities actually work?

I mean, is Nihilus' ability ever even referred to as a drain by a canon source? You even have an ability (gameplay mechanics) named Force Drain in that very game, which is obviously not the same thing.

Force Drain is an entire spectrum of powers, and in my blog on it I detail the difference between K2's Drain and the conventional Drain Life. That being said, as long as Drain involves affecting somebody's connection to the Force, my point stands.

And KotORCG identifies it as Drain, yes.

Originally posted by Geistalt
Well, he uses the Force Drain animation...

Oh does he?

And he does feed on his victims. What else would you call it? Lightning?

I imagine a drain to work in a manner where it directly empties the target of a quantifiable level of some kind of substance, such as some kind of life essence.

I would need the quotes but I don't believe that's how Nihilus' ability is described. It's more like it serves as a sort of off switch to their connection to the Force or something.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Force Drain is an entire spectrum of powers, and in my blog on it I detail the difference between K2's Drain and the conventional Drain Life.

Link?

Originally posted by SunRazer
And KotORCG identifies it as Drain, yes.

Any chance you have a scan of that?

Guess he used Sever Force, then. 😛

Basically, the impression I got was that he isn't emptying the cup of water but in fact making the cup intangible.

It's called sarcasm, damnit.

Well, Temp and the others seem to be doing just fine, so I don't think I'll be sticking around. Sorry Syn and DB77, nothing personal 🙂

Originally posted by S W LeGenD
Link?

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/darth-nihilus-146644/force-misconceptions-force-drain-kotor-ii-1828641/

Any chance you have a scan of that?

What's wrong with just having quotes? 🙂

Here's three:

Originally posted by Azronger
Well, Temp and the others seem to be doing just fine, so I don't think I'll be sticking around. Sorry Syn and DB77, nothing personal 🙂

Quotes would have also been fine; I wasn't expressing distrust, I was just interested in seeing the scans themselves.

Isn't it possible that the KotORCG conflicts with information from the game?

Right; that's what LucasArts does.

Going around, publishing inaccurate lore.

There's no conflict until you prove that the game establishes something different. Otherwise your proposition is completely baseless and you're basically that guy who blatantly refuses to accept evidence and keeps looking for non-existent ways to disprove it. 🙂

The same game depicts it with a Drain Life animation and in general the characteristics align perfectly with Drain-type powers. It's just that KotOR II prefers synonyms such as "feed" and "consume".

Before Nihilus even takes a step toward Palpatine, he turns to dust.

I'm not saying there is necessarily a conflict, just putting that possibility out there. Either way it's clear from the scans that you've provided that the KotORCG doesn't really do justice to exploring the intricacies of the technique, and it's also possible that it's being very liberal with the word "drain".

I think the wiser course of action would be looking solely at the game in this instance and seeing how Nihilus' ability functionally compares to other abilities we might think of as drains.