Order These Races By Power

Ignoring the one offs from a race like Mxy or Classic Beyonder. Celestials are difficult to rank. I like the classic lore of these massive Space Gods that walk around the level of Galactus (when fed). I thank thats phucking awesome, as they along other Space or Poremial Gods serve to maintain cosmic consonance within their respective universe.

But Marvel wants to push the idea that they ARE architects the Multiverse and that some DO predate the universe. Which puts established lore in conflict with the new status quo of the High Orders updated Mythos to follow.

wankers. 313wank

Originally posted by -Pr-
More powers =/= more powerful.

There's a problem here, though.

1. Nearly all the powers that Kryptonians have are powers that Martians ALSO have and in comparable magnitude. Flight, speed, super strength, heat vision, intangibility, healing. In which of these areas do Krptonians demonstrate any true superiority?

2. As pointed out earlier, Kryptonians only have their power in certain environments. Martians have power in nearly all of them.

3.. The powers that Martians have which Kryptonians do NOT are powers that trump Kryptonians in battle. Namely telepathy and mind control.

See Fernus versus Superman (and most of the rest of the JLA) in "JLA: Trial by Fire", and J'onnz versus Ultraman in "Earth-2" by Grant Morrison.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
There's a problem here, though.

1. Nearly all the powers that Kryptonians have are powers that Martians ALSO have and in comparable magnitude. Flight, speed, super strength, heat vision, intangibility, healing. In which of these areas do Krptonians demonstrate any true superiority?

2. As pointed out earlier, Kryptonians only have their power in certain environments. Martians have power in nearly all of them.

3.. The powers that Martians have which Kryptonians do NOT are powers that trump Kryptonians in battle. Namely telepathy and mind control.

See Fernus versus Superman (and most of the rest of the JLA) in "JLA: Trial by Fire", and J'onnz versus Ultraman in "Earth-2" by Grant Morrison.

It really depends on one single factor, imo: Do you include Superman in this? If you do, then the "comparable magnitude" argument goes flying out the window and in to orbit.

If we're going by "common v common" then the argument is a closer one.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1. Nearly all the powers that Kryptonians have are powers that Martians ALSO have and in comparable magnitude. Flight, speed, super strength, heat vision, intangibility, healing. In which of these areas do Krptonians demonstrate any true superiority?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
2. As pointed out earlier, Kryptonians only have their power in certain environments. Martians have power in nearly all of them.

That has nothing to do with their power under a yellow sun.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
3.. The powers that Martians have which Kryptonians do NOT are powers that trump Kryptonians in battle. Namely telepathy and mind control.

None of which puts them above kryptonians, based on showings.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
See Fernus versus Superman (and most of the rest of the JLA) in "JLA: Trial by Fire", and J'onnz versus Ultraman in "Earth-2" by Grant Morrison.

Fernus is a different being entirely from J'onn. Ultraman was weakened.

J'onn has gotten the shit beaten out of him by Superboy:

And he has gotten the shit beaten out of him by not-full power Zod:

And has been treated like a weakling by Supergirl:

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Monitors
Imps
Celestials
Beyonders

Pt 2

Kryptonians
Martians (Martian Manhunters Race)
Asgardians ( no odin no thor no loki no hela)
Skrulls

Superman (the source of everything)
Mxy/Overmonitor
Mandrakk
The Beyonder/Anti-Monitor
Beyonders/Imps
Celestials

Kryptonians
Martians
Asgardians
Skrulls

😂

J'onn makes a fantastic punching bag. 👆

superboy can defeat MM if the conditions are right and vice versa.

I wouldn't take a British citizen that's been living in the US for 30 years as test control for all citizens of the UK. Same for kryptonians. yes their planet is gone but that doesn't change what makes them kryptonian.

to me the OP is about the races at base levels without amps. so I would put martians over kryptonians as a race.

Kryps, at base, have the science and the tech to create yellow suns.

There, problem solved.

Supes is the Cap A of the Kryps, true, but then, MM is the Cap of the Martians. No other Martian save Fernus has the number of feats he has.

And yet, he comes up short every time in direct confrontation.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Kryps, at base, have the science and the tech to create yellow suns.

There, problem solved.

Supes is the Cap A of the Kryps, true, but then, MM is the Cap of the Martians. No other Martian save Fernus has the number of feats he has.

And yet, he comes up short every time in direct confrontation.

1. By reasoning such as yours, Kryptonians number in the billions in the present DCU.

2. No other Martian save Fernus has the number of feats J'onnz has because practically no other Martian save J'onnz is still alive. There's not a terribly big pool to choose from.

There's far more that deserves to be elaborated on, but TurboImageHost hasn't been working for me this week and, for some reason, nearly alone of all posters, I find Philo can't be directly quoted, the way I did with you or Pr. Be nice to know how he does that. Be nice to know, for that matter, what Image Host Provider he uses, and quoting him would have revealed that, but again, he can't be directly quoted ...

Originally posted by -Pr-
This could have been so dark...

Jaaaaa ! Das ist richtig mein Freünd !

Originally posted by Galan007
😂

J'onn makes a fantastic punching bag. 👆

To say that even J'onn is on kryptonians level is laughable.

Let's continue.

Doomsday:

Another kryptonian against J'onn:

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
There's a problem here, though.

1. Nearly all the powers that Kryptonians have are powers that Martians ALSO have and in comparable magnitude. Flight, speed, super strength, heat vision, intangibility, healing. In which of these areas do Krptonians demonstrate any true superiority?

2. As pointed out earlier, Kryptonians only have their power in certain environments. Martians have power in nearly all of them.

3.. The powers that Martians have which Kryptonians do NOT are powers that trump Kryptonians in battle. Namely telepathy and mind control.

See Fernus versus Superman (and most of the rest of the JLA) in "JLA: Trial by Fire", and J'onnz versus Ultraman in "Earth-2" by Grant Morrison.

Prove the common powers of comparable in magnitude. Show me something that's comparable to the Kryptonians(a relatively small number, most of which were random No-Names) killing Doomsday. J'onn couldn't break John Stewart's construct in COSMIC ODYSSEY, but Gor, who's not all that high, casually busted both John's and Hal's auto shields, which are a lot stronger than the construct J'onn could not break(considering the construct didn't survive destruction of the planet, but John's auto-protect saved him and J'onn from the supernova after). These are two examples and not even the impressive Kryptonians. As has been shown, Kara, who I'd put at best 5th out of Kryptonians, was hilariously stronger than J'onn.

Kryptonians actually don't only get powers under yellow stars, but hey, whatever helps you feel to win.

Which has only meant so much. Kryptonians naturally have telepathic resistance. Superman definitely has the best feats, but then if you argue his resistance feats don't apply to the rest of the race, which would be true, I hope you're not assuming automatically that all Martians are J'onn level telepaths and actually have the scans to back this being the ace.

It says so much that you have to fall back on out of context examples to argue Martians>Kryptonians. Why don't you bring-up Triumph's fights against Supes and J'onn while omitting context while you're at it?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
1. By reasoning such as yours, Kryptonians number in the billions in the present DCU.

2. No other Martian save Fernus has the number of feats J'onnz has because practically no other Martian save J'onnz is still alive. There's not a terribly big pool to choose from.

There's far more that deserves to be elaborated on, but TurboImageHost hasn't been working for me this week and, for some reason, nearly alone of all posters, I find Philo can't be directly quoted, the way I did with you or Pr. Be nice to know how he does that. Be nice to know, for that matter, what Image Host Provider he uses, and quoting him would have revealed that, but again, he can't be directly quoted ...

Reasoning such as mine?

I merely said that the top of the Kryp food chain, as it were, was Superman. He's peak Kryp.

Top of the Martian food chain is J'onn.

As Cap is to us, so are they to their races.

We can't say all Kryps have the feats that Supes has, nor can we say that all Martians have J'onn's feats.

And yet, the top of the Martian food chain does not stack up to the top of the Kryp food chain - or even the upper tiers.

How about this:
Put a bunch of Kryptonians, Martians, Skrulls and Asgardians on a red sun planet, see who dies first.

Kryptonians are not inherently super powered, they come in last here.

We use characters at their best, though. Obviously Kryptonians have powers or this wouldn't be fun.

This isnt characters, its races. Says so right in the thread title.

Last time we saw the Kryptonians, they all were under a yellow sun. All had powers. So, we use that.

And all Martians were dead.

I'm going on average, and on average, Kryptonians are last on the list.

Now you're just being silly. We're using the characters at their best, not dead. lol

Riv's completely on point. The Kryptonians come in last, for a variety of reason. 👆.