Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was just bad promotion and storytelling tbh. I mean seriously who enjoyed that fight except for Maul haters?
Depends on how you view it, it's explained by Filoni that they know each other in and out and that fights between two really good swordsmen isn't always long and stuff. I don't like it but it seems reasonable.
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Depends on how you view it, it's explained by Filoni that they know each other in and out and that fights between two really good swordsmen isn't always long and stuff. I don't like it but it seems reasonable.
Dude I'm fed up of getting commentary to save Maul some tiny bit of grace.
If Filoni wanted to tell us anything good about Maul, he should have shown it instead of commenting on it. Especially for his final outing.
Also Filoni's commentary:
"I think on one hand people would be excited to see another prolonged Lightsaber fight, but I just never really saw the competition that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth. Yes it's exciting as an audience member but it's not really a believable thing. The storytelling has to evolve.."
And this from Producer Carrie Beck:
"I think it's important for us that, even in the timeline we're not at A New Hope yet, what we know of Obi-Wan in that movie and work backwards in some way, to make sure that the character's progression charts appropriately"
^ all just says to me they wanted to show how Obi-Wan's grown so much that he's now beyond Maul an even match for Vader by ANH.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dude I'm fed up of getting commentary to save Maul some tiny bit of grace.If Filoni wanted to tell us anything good about Maul, he should have shown it instead of commenting on it. Especially for his final outing.
Also Filoni's commentary:
"I think on one hand people would be excited to see another prolonged Lightsaber fight, but I just never really saw the competition that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth. Yes it's exciting as an audience member but it's not really a believable thing. The storytelling has to evolve.."
And this from Producer Carrie Beck:
"I think it's important for us that, even in the timeline we're not at A New Hope yet, what we know of Obi-Wan in that movie and work backwards in some way, to make sure that the character's progression charts appropriately"
^ all just says to me they wanted to show how Obi-Wan's grown so much that he's now beyond Maul an even match for Vader by ANH.
Sure I agree with you, I'm just saying it's logical from their point of view. Maul had nothing to fight for anymore, he lost everything but instead of growing with it he's stuck in the past while Obi-Wan accepted his fate as a guardian to Luke which gave him purpose. In the end it's basically a motivated character versus someone who has nothing, doesn't matter how good you are there's always going to be one winner.
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Sure I agree with you, I'm just saying it's logical from their point of view. Maul had nothing to fight for anymore, he lost everything but instead of growing with it he's stuck in the past while Obi-Wan accepted his fate as a guardian to Luke which gave him purpose. In the end it's basically a motivated character versus someone who has nothing, doesn't matter how good you are there's always going to be one winner.
The logic of Obi-Wan's higher purpose making him grow far above Maul's petty purpose makes sense.
However the logic of repeatedly humiliating Maul, and finally finishing him off in a 2 second fight, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Except that the people who brought Maul back into Rebels never particularly liked him.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
The logic of Obi-Wan's higher purpose making him grow far above Maul's petty purpose makes sense.However the logic of repeatedly humiliating Maul, and finally finishing him off in a 2 second fight, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Except that the people who brought Maul back into Rebels never particularly liked him.
Yeah they were probably obliged to kill Maul in a decent medium and since GL stopped Filoni from doing it in TCW they had to do it in Rebels
Am I the only one who noticed similarity between this duel and that of Revan against the Imperial Guard?
Ben gives the impression of being calm, wise and having great precognition ability much like Revan, outsmarting an incredibly skilled opponent with superior clarity and judgement in like 2 - 3 moves.
The scene definitely represents the evolution of both Kenobi and Maul as swordsmen. The scene does make sense, and there is a lot of background information that explains that.
Now, Maul before his injuries inflicted by Kenobi had a far different mindset than he did during the clone wars and rebels. During the duel of fates he was a calculating fighter. He controlled the fight, letting Qui-Gon lead him to the generator room. He allowed his adversary to do so, in order to weaken Jinn since he wouldn't be able to use Ataru properly in such a confined space. This combined with Ataru's weak defence allowed Maul to then go on the offensive once Jinn tired and dissect his defences.
After he lost his legs to Kenobi, Maul changed as a fighter. Sure he still remained a Juyo specialist, but instead of attempting to strategise during fights, he instead approached fights with blind fury.
Kenobi was an Ataru specialist but began studying Soresu after the duel of fates to make up for Ataru's main weakness, defence. He later mastered Soresu to its highest degree, which became his primary form. Windu called him the reigning master of Soresu.
Masters of Soresu have never had their lightsaber defences broken, but it is theorised that only Juyo could penetrate the defences of a Soresu master. Then again, Kenobi during the time of this duel did not practice much.
For the duel itself, I will describe what happens. Obi-Wan brandishes his lightsaber and puts himself in a Soresu stance. Maul then changes his stance twice. On the next change, Kenobi does something curious. He changes his stance to that of Ataru, the exact stance Jinn used against Maul, and the form Jinn and Kenobi himself used against Maul during duel of the fates.
Maul then attacks, instead of a defensive strike, Kenobi actually swings his saber to meet Maul's swing. An Ataru response instead of a Soresu response. After the second strike, which Kenobi aptly defends, Maul attempts the move he used on Jinn: moving his hilt up in order to stun, following with a killing blow. Kenobi however cuts the hilt of Maul's saber before he can finish the move.
My theory is that Kenobi adopted an Ataru stance in order to trick Maul into thinking he could pull off the same trick on Kenobi as he did Jinn. The fact that Maul did not think about what he was doing but instead relied on blind rage only made this worse for him.
That's my two cents on the fight.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbeComplete hogwash. Your Star Wars ignorance is only matched by your comic book ignorance.
Actually nothing wrong with that fight. Maul as a duelist is a solid 7 or so, while Kenobi evolved to a 9 or 10. Just a superior opponent and not the youngling Maul faced before. He simply underestimated a superior foe.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was just bad promotion and storytelling tbh. I mean seriously who enjoyed that fight except for Maul haters?
As for the fight, I enjoyed it, reminded me of an old Samurai duel, which weren't a long drawn out display of acrobatics, but a quick clash with the superior opponent left standing, so historians say.
Originally posted by RobtardAs for the fight, I enjoyed it, reminded me of an old Samurai duel, which weren't a long drawn out display of acrobatics, but a quick clash with the superior opponent left standing, so historians say.
Yeah but there wasn't really any fight to enjoy. It was too short. The enjoyable bits were the exchange of words between them, but there was nothing to the fight itself Imho, except "hey look how much better Obi-Wan is than Maul.."
Given the promotion and build up to it, I was very disappointed. If you look at their fights in TCW, Obi-Wan looked like the better combatant, but it was still always a great back and forth fight. So this being their final and ultimate confrontation was a big let down to me personally. Give me TCW over Rebels any day.