Originally posted by Zack M
NW is also a lot more agile than logan.
He depends on acrobatics more, but no, he's not more agile.
Wolverine does have the enhanced sense of balance and superhuman attributes, Dick does not. Plus, he's been training with Nightcrawler, whose agility rivals that of Spider-Man --- which originally was meant to be Logan's agility lv, btw.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He depends on acrobatics more, but no, he's not more agile.Wolverine does have the enhanced sense of balance and superhuman attributes, Dick does not. Plus, he's been training with Nightcrawler, whose agility rivals that of Spider-Man --- which originally was meant to be Logan's agility lv, btw.
That is true. Logan is more enhanced, but I still say Dick has more raw talent, in terms of agility.
Talent? Sure, he grew up in a freakin' circus and had genes and training of pro acrobats. One thing that's actually consistent, no matter the universe.
Thing is, inhuman agility is also a part of Logan's powerset, even though he often chooses not to rely on it.
He kept up with Parker when jumping through the city, he made HYDRA believe he's Beast (classic blue version, pre-Whedon) and so on.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Talent? Sure, he grew up in a freakin' circus and had genes and training of pro acrobats. One thing that's actually consistent, no matter the universe.Thing is, inhuman agility is also a part of Logan's powerset, even though he often chooses not to rely on it.
He kept up with Parker when jumping through the city, he made HYDRA believe he's Beast (classic blue version, pre-Whedon) and so on.
I know. Take away his enhanced stats, and NW has the edge there. Same would be said for Daredevil, IMO.
Nightwing would win this pretty easily, No seriously the Castle wank here is pretty ridiculous. Using ABC logic of "he tagged Spiderman" doesn't work, I can just as easily say that Dick has dodged gunfire from Deathstroke who would run circles around Castle as far as accuracy and gun skill go (along with everything else for that matter)
Originally posted by RadZoa
Nightwing would win this pretty easily, No seriously the Castle wank here is pretty ridiculous. Using ABC logic of "he tagged Spiderman" doesn't work, I can just as easily say that Dick has dodged gunfire from Deathstroke who would run circles around Castle as far as accuracy and gun skill go (along with everything else for that matter)
The fight starts with them half a kilometer apart (about five and a half football fields apart), in a featureless environment offering no cover, and only Castle has a long-distance high-velocity arsenal which can not only incapacitate, but kill. That would be tough for anyone under Spider-Man's agility level and without precognition or superhuman durability to close the distance and turn it into a brawl without getting shot multiple times.
If anything, there is plenty of Dick wanking going on... Pun not intended, but it's okay, laugh.
I know Nightwing has quite a few aim/bullet-dodging feats, even dodging fire from marksmen like Deathstroke. Feats are great to help gauge and quantify characters' abilities, especially on the higher end of the power scale. I've gotta say though, when it comes to street-levelers and bullet-dodging, too often are their feats displayed and the argument presented that they more or less can't be shot. Consistent feats are accepted as the norm and will be used as evidence in discussion, and my opinion of it all won't change that, but one can only suspend disbelief so much before it becomes utterly ridiculous.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The fight starts with them half a kilometer apart (about five and a half football fields apart), in a featureless environment offering no cover, and only Castle has a long-distance high-velocity arsenal which can not only incapacitate, but kill. That would be tough for anyone under Spider-Man's agility level and without precognition or superhuman durability to close the distance and turn it into a brawl without getting shot multiple times.If anything, there is plenty of Dick wanking going on... Pun not intended, but it's okay, laugh.
I know Nightwing has quite a few aim/bullet-dodging feats, even dodging fire from marksmen like Deathstroke. Feats are great to help gauge and quantify characters' abilities, especially on the higher end of the power scale. I've gotta say though, when it comes to street-levelers and bullet-dodging, too often are their feats displayed and the argument presented that they more or less can't be shot. Consistent feats are accepted as the norm and will be used as evidence in discussion, and my opinion of it all won't change that, but one can only suspend disbelief so much before it becomes utterly ridiculous.
Well, like I said before, NW can read body movements. He'll obviously know what Frank will do. And his Hypnos will prevent Frank from getting a good shot off. You can't ignore that.
Originally posted by Zack M
Well, like I said before, NW can read body movements. He'll obviously know what Frank will do. And his Hypnos will prevent Frank from getting a good shot off. You can't ignore that.
It's too farfetched for me to believe that Dick would be able to read Castle's body movements accurately from that great a distance.
I don't know much about the Hypnos tech. What kind of range does it have? And does it qualify as standard equipment, or is it something he'll only have for the next arc or two? Does it pass Stiltman's "no cheap shot" stipulation?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Talent? Sure, he grew up in a freakin' circus and had genes and training of pro acrobats. One thing that's actually consistent, no matter the universe.Thing is, inhuman agility is also a part of Logan's powerset, even though he often chooses not to rely on it.
He kept up with Parker when jumping through the city, he made HYDRA believe he's Beast (classic blue version, pre-Whedon) and so on.
Yeah that is kind of true. Dick had to practice, prefect and work for his abilities, Little Jimmy was just born with his.
Originally posted by Flyattractornaw, Logan had to work for his agility as well. He way have been born with the reflexes, but he had to work to perfect it as well as making it a part of his fighting style.
[b]Yeah that is kind of true. Dick had to practice, prefect and work for his abilities, Little Jimmy was just born with his. [/B]
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
It's too farfetched for me to believe that Dick would be able to read Castle's body movements accurately from that great a distance.I don't know much about the Hypnos tech. What kind of range does it have? And does it qualify as standard equipment, or is it something he'll only have for the next arc or two? Does it pass Stiltman's "no cheap shot" stipulation?
He's been using it for a while now. So, it's standard equipment. I highly recommend Grayson. It use to be one of the best bat books around.
Originally posted by DamborgsonHe's not in for an easy run though, Frank is a hard man to put down.
Let me help you out b/c you seem to be missing the scan right before.
^Another point blank dodge until the Pun bit his lip, but by then Daken had already gutted him.
Then later on another dodge by Daken against what appears to be a high tech automatic weapon. Which he lunges for and destroys, allowing Pun an opportunity to pull a side piece and shoot him in the head. So twice Daken was able to dodge high tech weapons of Pun and close the gap.
Originally posted by cdtm
Got to love Castle. Genre savvy enough to know speedsters are idiots. 🙂
Dodges boomerangs and blocks attacks from the speedster Cap Boomerang Jr.
http://i.imgur.com/SFS9o68.jpg
Dodges Jessic Quick's super speed kick.
http://i.imgur.com/nreoI06.jpg
Dodges Starfire's starbolt at close range.
http://i.imgur.com/8nFdxyo.jpg
Dodges Amazo's heat vision and impresses Wally West with his speed.
Originally posted by Supermutantyou're forgetting that Frank was tired and weaker than normal by the point that daken had been sent after him. Not only that, but you yourself just provided two examples of a legitimate bullet timer closing the gap only to get beaten back and shot to shit.
Let me help you out b/c you seem to be missing the scan right before.^Another point blank dodge until the Pun bit his lip, but by then Daken had already gutted him.
Then later on another dodge by Daken against what appears to be a high tech automatic weapon. Which he lunges for and destroys, allowing Pun an opportunity to pull a side piece and shoot him in the head. So twice Daken was able to dodge high tech weapons of Pun and close the gap.
Originally posted by deathslash
you're forgetting that Frank was tired and weaker than normal by the point that daken had been sent after him. Not only that, but you yourself just provided two examples of a legitimate bullet timer closing the gap only to get beaten back and shot to shit.
He also had weapons that aren't standard gear for him, and was gutted before he got even one shot off.
Originally posted by Supermutantone of those fights was happening in an enclosed space and it didn't start from a football field away. Also, I'm failing to see why his usage of a blaster and an advanced SMG has any bearing in this fight. Hell, he still shot daken with a normal pistol in that second set of scans and Nightwing doesn't gut people. If anything, you posting scans of Frank fighting through getting impaled and gutted while he's not at 100% only makes him look even more impressive.
He also had weapons that aren't standard gear for him, and was gutted before he got even one shot off.
