Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Namor should honestly Stomp. I don't see Hawkman hanging around powerhouses for prolonged fights the way Namor does. He usually harms them yes. But in a team setting.IGAU. Is worse because we don't know if he's on the pill or not.. lol. And characters like Mongul are pretty fearless and he fought Superman using K-nite.
HM fought Black Adam for 7 pages in the lead up to black reign in a solo fight. He lost and left to get help but could still hold up against someone above Namor in ohysicals for some time.
Hes fought Aquman (hook hand) also for 3 or 4 pages who is Namor level in a solo fight.
Not to mention a two page solo fight vs Mongul Snr.
Do I need to go on ?? Clearly you arent informed on the characters showings because your flat out wrong
Well, Daredevil fought Namor for an entire issue.
Thats more Namor not demolishing him outright.
Same with HM/BA.
Good showings for the lower tier characters, lower tier being paramount, in that the good showings dont mean these characters are gonna go out and beat a powerhouse without heavy plot devices in place.
Originally posted by riv6672
Well, Daredevil fought Namor for an entire issue.Thats more Namor not demolishing him outright.
Same with HM/BA.
Good showings for the lower tier characters, lower tier being paramount, in that the good showings dont mean these characters are gonna go out and beat a powerhouse without heavy plot devices in place.
I didnt suggest HM would win, in fact I said he wouldnt.
Just showing the statement to be comlletely false.
BA won that fight convincingly. The thing is HM took all BA's punishment throughout. He took being thrown thru a wall, being pounded constantly, being hurled from above the highest sky scraper to the ground and straight thru a cars engine block. The healing factor given him by his Nth metal (which isnt far behind that of Wolverine) allowed him to just keep coming back. After the engine block he got back up but flew off to get his team mates. Its not a low showing for BA because he demonstrated complete superiority through out. He showed that the damage he caused to other things WITH HM's body he was still operating at his normal level.
What it did show was that HM can take as much damage as Namor is capable of dishing out for quite some time. Hense its not a stomp (as I said from the start) his Nth metal mace allows HM to strike with greater force than hlthe enhanced strength it gives him (in strength his feats are at best 5 to 6 tons, but striking power with mace is more like 50 ton given that hes completely collapsed the front of a car speeding at him. This means he can make strikes that Namor would definitely feel (though id say do likited damage) AND can take what Namor can dish out for a lot longer than most. Definitely not a win but far from a stomp
Originally posted by beatboks
I didnt suggest HM would win, in fact I said he wouldnt.
Just showing the statement to be comlletely false.
BA won that fight convincingly. The thing is HM took all BA's punishment throughout. He took being thrown thru a wall, being pounded constantly, being hurled from above the highest sky scraper to the ground and straight thru a cars engine block. The healing factor given him by his Nth metal (which isnt far behind that of Wolverine) allowed him to just keep coming back. After the engine block he got back up but flew off to get his team mates. Its not a low showing for BA because he demonstrated complete superiority through out. He showed that the damage he caused to other things WITH HM's body he was still operating at his normal level.What it did show was that HM can take as much damage as Namor is capable of dishing out for quite some time. Hense its not a stomp (as I said from the start) his Nth metal mace allows HM to strike with greater force than hlthe enhanced strength it gives him (in strength his feats are at best 5 to 6 tons, but striking power with mace is more like 50 ton given that hes completely collapsed the front of a car speeding at him. This means he can make strikes that Namor would definitely feel (though id say do likited damage) AND can take what Namor can dish out for a lot longer than most. Definitely not a win but far from a stomp
Originally posted by beatboks
HM fought Black Adam for 7 pages in the lead up to black reign in a solo fight. He lost and left to get help but could still hold up against someone above Namor in ohysicals for some time.Hes fought Aquman (hook hand) also for 3 or 4 pages who is Namor level in a solo fight.
Not to mention a two page solo fight vs Mongul Snr.
Do I need to go on ?? Clearly you arent informed on the characters showings because your flat out wrong
From what I'm aware Black Adam wasn't fully powered either. His powers were being shared. There's context there because that's not the norm for Hawkman. And despite all of that Hawkman was on the losing end.
Honesty PAD Aquaman ranges when PAD isn't writing him. And I'm a heavy Aquaman buff. Most either had Aquaman as if it was the silver age in regards to stats or they'd follow what PAD set. Example there's been regular humans who've knocked out hook hand Aquaman. Him being stunned by Hawkman's grenades and whatnot doesn't sound to impressive.
You listed two examples and both have been deconstructed so please go on.
In regards to actual feats. Aquaman outclasses Hawkman in every stat area just like Namor does.
Originally posted by staxamillionJust totally inconsistent really, anyone could just about beat anyone depending on the time of day, it never made much sense. Alternate reality anyway.
aren't everyones base levels drastically different in injustice?
Hawkman vs Namor would actually be a pretty good fight, especially with HM's weapons, but I can see HM taking heavy punishment before eventually losing.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
In regards to actual feats. Aquaman outclasses Hawkman in every stat area just like Namor does.
mmhmmmm
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Battles
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Shadow War of Hawkman #3:
Here with one of their guns Hawkwoman quickly knocks out Aquaman
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/ShadowWarofHawkman03-19.jpg
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Hawkman #15 [Vol.3]: Aquaman (Hawkman: Holl)
Hawkman tracks down the avatar of the Baracuda, but must go through Aquaman who was friends with him until he found out he was a child molestor. Hawkman schools Aquaman
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-13.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-14.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-15.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-16.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-17.jpg
6. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-18.jpg
7. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-19.jpg
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JLA #119 [Vol.3]:
Here Carter subdues a mind-controlled Aquaman
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JLA119-0006.jpg
Originally posted by -K-M-
mmhmmmm---------------------------------------------
[b]Battles
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Shadow War of Hawkman #3:
Here with one of their guns Hawkwoman quickly knocks out Aquaman1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/ShadowWarofHawkman03-19.jpg
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Hawkman #15 [Vol.3]: Aquaman (Hawkman: Holl)
Hawkman tracks down the avatar of the Baracuda, but must go through Aquaman who was friends with him until he found out he was a child molestor. Hawkman schools Aquaman1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-13.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-14.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-15.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-16.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-17.jpg
6. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-18.jpg
7. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-015-19.jpg
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JLA #119 [Vol.3]:
Here Carter subdues a mind-controlled Aquaman1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JLA119-0006.jpg [/B]
The only example worth mentioning is the drawn out fight with Hawkman and Aquaman in Hawkman #15.
1st instance is a cheapshot. With an Aquaman who is generally weaker stat wise then he is in later years.
2nd instance: Good mention, not gonna lie. But it could honestly come down to inconsistenty. Theres more examples of Hawkman being more Deathstroke tier if not a bit higher.
3rd instance it was one panel... faulty as hell. There's an image of Vox you know the human guy with voice issues and no superhuman stats at all restraining Superboy. Same comic Aquaman looked superior in the fact he was going head on with Desperate and throwing him around and shit. The one time Hawkman got Despero's attention in a comic was when he hit him with a mace swing and just annoyed the guy... Aquaman sent him flying with his hands.
Hawkman is low to mid mid-tier. Where he can harm powerhouses, but he doesn't really have the stats to win or stay in a prolonged fight. Kinda like Wolverine.
The problem is you Hawkman supporters are relying on scaling which typically often doesn't work with established characters like Hawkman who've had several series and appearances.
You act like I don't rep aquaman 😬
Also first scan is to show one example of the tech hawkman has that he can use which was still strong enough to one shot AM. Not even his best weapons either
You call it faulty? I call it relevant. You can see aquaman struggling to break free. He used his strength and skill to hold aquaman for a short period of time. Same aquaman that was going one on one with despero
I don't think anyone is saying hawkman wins. What we're arguing is the claim namor would stomp mainstream hawkman when he wouldn't. However, if we are using injustice hawkman then namor 100% stomps
Hawkman has actually gotten an amp and is stronger in the new52. So yes even hawkman has power scaling
Originally posted by -K-M-
You act like I don't rep aquaman 😬Also first scan is to show one example of the tech hawkman has that he can use which was still strong enough to one shot AM. Not even his best weapons either
You call it faulty? I call it relevant. You can see aquaman struggling to break free. He used his strength and skill to hold aquaman for a short period of time. Same aquaman that was going one on one with despero
I don't think anyone is saying hawkman wins. What we're arguing is the claim namor would stomp mainstream hawkman when he wouldn't. However, if we are using injustice hawkman then namor 100% stomps
Hawkman has actually gotten an amp and is stronger in the new52. So yes even hawkman has power scaling
Again one panel. We don't know how long that panel last. It could be a second of time it could be a minute. Going off actual strength feats and not scaling Aquaman severely out classes Carter/Katar/Whatever version were using in regards to strength. Again there's pretty weak characters in regards to strength who've done the same thing to completely stronger characters. It would get more recognition if it went longer than just a panel. Otherwise
http://pm1.narvii.com/5748/f6b9e2fa599bca872eed3bc298d1385ee1e8b9b3_hq.jpg
I don't take stuff like the above instance seriously. Cause Vox has no feats suggesting he should logically restrain Superboy.
Same thing goes in regards to speed if a character keeps up with flash I don't assume the character is as fast as Flash unless stated by feats. Hawkman has nothing close to lifting a city block or resisting Polaris magnetism the same issue he was able to lift Atlantis. Are we just suppose to assume he's at that level or near it because of one panel where he withheld a character.
Aquaman ranges depending on writer. In the PAD Era and before it. We have stories where Batman and Joker could make him feel pain and other stories where Deathstroke can't even phase the guy. We also have stories where he gets dropped by a club to the head I believe it was in one of his annuals.
I'm not trying to downplay Hawkman. But if we look at each stat across the bored he's outclassed. I'd agree with anyone who said he can hurt Namor cause he has a history of harming characters tiers above him but there's typically some stuff involved there that should be factored.
Nu52 Hawkman might also have some shot given versatility, but it's not that consistent for me to really factor it in that much.
