Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Again one panel. We don't know how long that panel last. It could be a second of time it could be a minute. Going off actual strength feats and not scaling Aquaman severely out classes Carter/Katar/Whatever version were using in regards to strength. Again there's pretty weak characters in regards to strength who've done the same thing to completely stronger characters. It would get more recognition if it went longer than just a panel. Otherwisehttp://pm1.narvii.com/5748/f6b9e2fa599bca872eed3bc298d1385ee1e8b9b3_hq.jpg
I don't take stuff like the above instance seriously. Cause Vox has no feats suggesting he should logically restrain Superboy.
Same thing goes in regards to speed if a character keeps up with flash I don't assume the character is as fast as Flash unless stated by feats. Hawkman has nothing close to lifting a city block or resisting Polaris magnetism the same issue he was able to lift Atlantis. Are we just suppose to assume he's at that level or near it because of one panel where he withheld a character.
Aquaman ranges depending on writer. In the PAD Era and before it. We have stories where Batman and Joker could make him feel pain and other stories where Deathstroke can't even phase the guy. We also have stories where he gets dropped by a club to the head I believe it was in one of his annuals.
I'm not trying to downplay Hawkman. But if we look at each stat across the bored he's outclassed. I'd agree with anyone who said he can hurt Namor cause he has a history of harming characters tiers above him but there's typically some stuff involved there that should be factored.
Nu52 Hawkman might also have some shot given versatility, but it's not that consistent for me to really factor it in that much.
What? How is that scene comparable. With the Vox example it was three on one, and Superboy is literally punching one person away. While Hawkman and Aquaman are one on one and we visible see Aquaman struggling to break free 😬 Kator/Carter merged into one being meaning all Hawkman feats can be applied to Hawkman. Once again your underestimating Hawkman he has lifted helicopters, spaceships and his punches (not just a mace) has hurt Wonder Woman
You're the type that complains when Batman has high showings don't you? If stats were everything in comics Deathstroke, Wolverine, Batman, Red Robin would get owned by everyone. Yet Hawkman has THOUSANDS of years of experience, animal control, control of air currents, enhanced senses, powerful healing factor, advanced tech, etc. Class 100 characters have had a hard time putting him down. Even recently with the new Lobo. In that fight Hawkman healed an entire arm that was cut off in a minute. As noted by Atom "Hawkman giggles at anything less then third degree burns"
You are 1oo% trying to downplay Hawkman. This is a guy who can keep up with speedsters and his enhanced senses allows him to keep up. He also has beaten Johnny Quick
Hawkman takes on the Fourth Reich himself. Here he easily tags a Nazi speedster and wrecks various others. It also shows he can take a statue being crushed on him with no real ill damage
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_03.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_04-05.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_06.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_07.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_08.jpg
6. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_09.jpg
During the Rann/Thanagar War, Hawkman steps up and takes on a whole army of Gordanians which had over a thousand soliders. Well he beats them....and with ease.
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-003.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-004.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-005.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-006.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-007.jpg
He also has beaten Shark
Against Black Adam
1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p14.jpg
2. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p15.jpg
3. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p16.jpg
4. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p17.jpg
5. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p18.jpg
6. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p19.jpg
Originally posted by -K-M-
What? How is that scene comparable. With the Vox example it was three on one, and Superboy is literally punching one person away. While Hawkman and Aquaman are one on one and we visible see Aquaman struggling to break free 😬 Kator/Carter merged into one being meaning all Hawkman feats can be applied to Hawkman. Once again your underestimating Hawkman he has lifted helicopters, spaceships and his punches (not just a mace) has hurt Wonder WomanYou're the type that complains when Batman has high showings don't you? If stats were everything in comics Deathstroke, Wolverine, Batman, Red Robin would get owned by everyone. Yet Hawkman has THOUSANDS of years of experience, animal control, control of air currents, enhanced senses, powerful healing factor, advanced tech, etc. Class 100 characters have had a hard time putting him down. Even recently with the new Lobo. In that fight Hawkman healed an entire arm that was cut off in a minute. As noted by Atom "Hawkman giggles at anything less then third degree burns"
You are 1oo% trying to downplay Hawkman. This is a guy who can keep up with speedsters and his enhanced senses allows him to keep up. He also has beaten Johnny Quick
Hawkman takes on the Fourth Reich himself. Here he easily tags a Nazi speedster and wrecks various others. It also shows he can take a statue being crushed on him with no real ill damage
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_03.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_04-05.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_06.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_07.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_08.jpg
6. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JSA_03_09.jpgDuring the Rann/Thanagar War, Hawkman steps up and takes on a whole army of Gordanians which had over a thousand soliders. Well he beats them....and with ease.
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-003.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-004.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-005.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-006.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/hm-47-007.jpgHe also has beaten Shark
Against Black Adam
1. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p14.jpg
2. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p15.jpg
3. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p16.jpg
4. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p17.jpg
5. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p18.jpg
6. http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd199/MachineMan616/BlackAdam3-p19.jpg
It's comparable because it's a scan where a character physically inferior is shown "restraining" a character physically superior.
Black Panther restraining Surfer work better? What about IGAU Bane restraining Doomsday?
I don't complain when Batman has high showings. I just understand the difference between high showings and plot. If Batman tags the Flash I'd call that plot. If Batman is shown running faster than a motorcycle that's a showing. The fact that there's so much dependency on other characters for Hawkman in this fight pretty much makes it clear why this isn't debatable at all for any wins in Carter's favor.
Like I said stats favor Namor.
The Teth instance has context I believe. You'd have to show me the feats of these Gordanians Hawkman is taking on. Honestly he's outclassed.
Perceiving someone moving fast isn't the same as keeping up with them. That's a ridiculous insertion if your trying to make it. If not it's a random mention in regards to the Identity Crisis scan.
Since he was mentioned Hawkman actually has a victory over Dr. Polaris. He beat him with his "organic" wings, which couldn't do that but even before he used that to his advantage he was taking it to him. Actually could have killed him in the middle of the fight
---------------------------------------------
Hawkman #28 [Vol.3]:
Here Hawkman steps up his game and takes on Dr.Polaris who takes on Green Lantern's. He actually defeats Polaris in a long hard battle.
1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-05.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-06.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-07.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-08.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-09.jpg
6. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-10.jpg
7. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-11.jpg
8. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-12.jpg
9. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-13.jpg
10. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-14.jpg
11. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-15.jpg
12. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-16.jpg
13. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-17.jpg
14. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-18.jpg
15. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-19.jpg
16. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-20.jpg
17. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-21.jpg
18. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-22.jpg
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It's comparable because it's a scan where a character physically inferior is shown "restraining" a character physically superior.Black Panther restraining Surfer work better? What about IGAU Bane restraining Doomsday?
I don't complain when Batman has high showings. I just understand the difference between high showings and plot. If Batman tags the Flash I'd call that plot. If Batman is shown running faster than a motorcycle that's a showing. The fact that there's so much dependency on other characters for Hawkman in this fight pretty much makes it clear why this isn't debatable at all for any wins in Carter's favor.
Like I said stats favor Namor.
The Teth instance has context I believe. You'd have to show me the feats of these Gordanians Hawkman is taking on. Honestly he's outclassed.
Perceiving someone moving fast isn't the same as keeping up with them. That's a ridiculous insertion if your trying to make it. If not it's a random mention in regards to the Identity Crisis scan.
Not at all. You tried comparing a scan where SUperboy isn't even trying to escape but punching someone at the same time Vex is holding him with another about to attack. While Hawkman and Aquaman are one on one and we see Aquaman struggling to break free
Yep and how did he do it? With his strength and skill allowing him to do it against a stronger foe. Meaning what exactly? Oh that in comics stats are not always everything. Especially when it comes to people who are highly skilled fighters ie. Captain America, Batman, Daredevil, Shang Chi, etc. Bane and Doomsday is from the Injustice universe
So I was right, no point debating you then. As you choose to ignore all of Hawkman's showings then as their not "realistic". Welcome to the world of comics.
and? Black Adam and various other class 100 characters had the stats over him and they have struggled to put him down. 😬
What context? and their super strong aliens and he took on thousands at once. Once again you're trying to low ball 😬
Did you miss the part where he has BEATEN speedsters? He actually has shown lightspeed in space while towing a ship in the Silver Age. He has shown to go mach speeds on earth as well. He himself has super speed 😬 Answer me truthfully do you know much if anything of Hawkman?
Originally posted by -K-M-
Since he was mentioned Hawkman actually has a victory over Dr. Polaris. He beat him with his "organic" wings, which couldn't do that but even before he used that to his advantage he was taking it to him. Actually could have killed him in the middle of the fight
---------------------------------------------
Hawkman #28 [Vol.3]:
Here Hawkman steps up his game and takes on Dr.Polaris who takes on Green Lantern's. He actually defeats Polaris in a long hard battle.1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-05.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-06.jpg
3. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-07.jpg
4. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-08.jpg
5. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-09.jpg
6. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-10.jpg
7. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-11.jpg
8. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-12.jpg
9. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-13.jpg
10. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-14.jpg
11. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-15.jpg
12. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-16.jpg
13. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-17.jpg
14. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-18.jpg
15. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-19.jpg
16. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-20.jpg
17. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-21.jpg
18. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/Hawkman-v3-028-22.jpg
Nice! 👆 That's an uber feat for Hawkman.
Way to miss the point guys. Once again Hawkman takes on someone with "superior" stats and not only does he hang...he wins. No one is debating who is stronger between Hawkman and Aquaman, but Hawkman can hang with his superiors and they don't simply just stomp him.
Also are you referring to Aquaman #40 when he had Dolphin and Tempest with him?
Also are you referring to this scene? Hope not
Polaris was toying with him, Dolphin and Tempest helped him, and nor was there that much force used on him either. How do I know? The railing he was holding didn't bend or break. So is this what your referring to?
Or you referring to Aquaman #51? Which again Polaris was stretched and as noted the bonds were weakened
Or was it some different story?
Originally posted by -K-M-
Also are you referring to this scene? Hope notPolaris was toying with him, Dolphin and Tempest helped him, and nor was there that much force used on him either. How do I know? The railing he was holding didn't bend or break. So is this what your referring to?
Or you referring to Aquaman #51? Which again Polaris was stretched and as noted the bonds were weakened
Or was it some different story?
That's weird given Polaris couldn't take the hook off him. Toying or not he kept his hold on the city and irregardless has similar feats to back it.
That's also 5 panels where be was by himself keeping his old compared to your one panel your blowing up with Hawkman "restraining Hawkman"
Try some personal feats for Hawkman where he's not loosely scaling and the results are more evident.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
From what I'm aware Black Adam wasn't fully powered either. His powers were being shared. There's context there because that's not the norm for Hawkman. And despite all of that Hawkman was on the losing end.Honesty PAD Aquaman ranges when PAD isn't writing him. And I'm a heavy Aquaman buff. Most either had Aquaman as if it was the silver age in regards to stats or they'd follow what PAD set. Example there's been regular humans who've knocked out hook hand Aquaman. Him being stunned by Hawkman's grenades and whatnot doesn't sound to impressive.
You listed two examples and both have been deconstructed so please go on.
In regards to actual feats. Aquaman outclasses Hawkman in every stat area just like Namor does.
O_o how were BA's powers "shared" Oh your not talking about the sahred power of Isis (that wasn't BA's but an amp he had that was shared with others) are you??
https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4058139-adam+v+hawk+1+.jpg
https://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4058140-adam+v+hawk+2.jpg
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4058141-adam+v+hawk+3+.jpg
https://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4058145-adamhawk4.jpg
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4058142-adam+v+hawk+6.jpg
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4058144-adam+v+hawk+8.jpg
Really looks like BA was depowered huh. HM can make a fight of it against him because of the ridiculous healing factor that Nth metal gives.
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4709313-healing.jpg
Almost bled out from a slit throat to fine in a second or two once he had his Nth metal again
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4223931-arm+injury+1.jpg
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4223933-arm+injury+2.jpg
https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30145/4223935-arm+injury+3.jpg
In trinity his arm was almost completely severed by a shield striking it and was little more than a scar a few pages alter.
HM's healing factor is as far behind Logan's as Namor is behind Hulk in strength an durability (actually now that I think about it HM's HF is closer to Logan than Namor is to Hulk)
Very few would say that Hulk would stomp Wolvie. Win ABSOLUTELY, but not stomp.
HM is MUCH stronger than Logan.
Hm is faster than Logan.
HM has better sight than Logan and close to even on other senses.
HM has greater mobility due to flight than HM.
The gap between Namor and HM is MUCH smaller than between Hulk and Wolverine and they have had several fights that went a while and therefore isn't a stomp.
Hawkwman and Aquaman also had a brief fight in the new52 which was stopped by a pissed off Wonder Woman who punched hawkman to the ground and he was right back up. Hawkman was also shown taking shots from aquaman and being fine
And beat don't forget in the new 52 when Lobo cut his arm off and he healed it completely in minutes
