Originally posted by MrMind
because eternity is not below LT anymore, but above. eternity is currently at the top
This is what I don’t understand.
He is considered to be an omnipotent entity, being more powerful than Eternity and Infinity as they are only the embodied aspects of individual universes whereas the Tribunal presides over all universes. His power is such that he can nullify the power of the Infinity Gems in unison.
How much weaker? If we take Korvak’s feat at face value, he defeated a multiversal character when he said that he decimated the Living Tribunal who had taken him captive. Just thought that it was worth mentioning, and that it would be impossible for the LT to be below Eternity as Eternity only operates within the physical plane, while the LT operates in both the physical and metaphysical planes.
To say that Korvac had no chance is in direct opposition with Korvac having decimated the Living Tribunal. That word alone holds a lot of weight. It eliminates skepticism, because it shouts out absolute domination. Darkseid would have to be approaching TOAA in order to defeat Korvac with ease, which skips right over many that should be able to give him a decent fight based upon what has been seen.
The word multiversal has been thrown around without being backed by very much imo. Perpetua’s battle with Darkest Knight for example, looked no different than When Galactus fought the Inbetweener. They both seemed quite underwhelming in their portrayal.
When you have a character that is capable of decimating the Living Tribunal, you step into a realm of more than just fisticuffs. Do you have reason to believe that his increased power levels place him above the LT? If so, why?
Anyway, Korvak is Marvel’s version of Doctor Manhattan.
Originally posted by Stoic
How much weaker? If we take Korvak’s feat at face value, he defeated a multiversal character when he said that he decimated the Living Tribunal who had taken him captive. Just thought that it was worth mentioning, and that it would be impossible for the LT to be below Eternity as Eternity only operates within the physical plane, while the LT operates in both the physical and metaphysical planes.To say that Korvac had no chance is in direct opposition with Korvac having decimated the Living Tribunal. That word alone holds a lot of weight. It eliminates skepticism, because it shouts out absolute domination. Darkseid would have to be approaching TOAA in order to defeat Korvac with ease, which skips right over many that should be able to give him a decent fight based upon what has been seen.
The word multiversal has been thrown around without being backed by very much imo. Perpetua’s battle with Darkest Knight for example, looked no different than When Galactus fought the Inbetweener. They both seemed quite underwhelming in their portrayal.
When you have a character that is capable of decimating the Living Tribunal, you step into a realm of more than just fisticuffs. Do you have reason to believe that his increased power levels place him above the LT? If so, why?
Anyway, Korvak is Marvel’s version of Doctor Manhattan.
Originally posted by Stoic
You still did not really give an answer. Arguably the most powerful of them is the Spectre who fluctuates wildly. The rest can hardly be consider on LT’s level.
You asked me how much weaker was he when he fought AM. All I can say is that current DS said that every single Darkseid seen so far (n52, baby, pre Flashpoint, the one who fought Doomsday, the one who chatted to Anarky, the one who was dragging the multiverse down with his shadow or whatever flowery language was used during Final Crisis), the one who fought the AM etc etc) was a weaker aspect of himself, and he was combining them all together.
Originally posted by Stoic
How much weaker? If we take Korvak’s feat at face value, he defeated a multiversal character when he said that he decimated the Living Tribunal who had taken him captive. Just thought that it was worth mentioning, and that it would be impossible for the LT to be below Eternity as Eternity only operates within the physical plane, while the LT operates in both the physical and metaphysical planes.To say that Korvac had no chance is in direct opposition with Korvac having decimated the Living Tribunal. That word alone holds a lot of weight. It eliminates skepticism, because it shouts out absolute domination. Darkseid would have to be approaching TOAA in order to defeat Korvac with ease, which skips right over many that should be able to give him a decent fight based upon what has been seen.
The word multiversal has been thrown around without being backed by very much imo. Perpetua’s battle with Darkest Knight for example, looked no different than When Galactus fought the Inbetweener. They both seemed quite underwhelming in their portrayal.
When you have a character that is capable of decimating the Living Tribunal, you step into a realm of more than just fisticuffs. Do you have reason to believe that his increased power levels place him above the LT? If so, why?
Anyway, Korvak is Marvel’s version of Doctor Manhattan.
As far as I can tell, this would be competitive. There isn’t much proof that Sarkseid is more powerful than LT, based upon feats. His Avy’s are mostly weak compared to LT and Cube type power levels. His most powerful form seen in action was when he battled AM. You can toss in a bag of Avy’s and they amount to nothing in comparison to the LT’s power levels. At best you can place him as a peer to the LT, because the Spectre has some really lousy showings.
We have no idea how powerful he is from one moment to the next. He’s just another crash test dummy. The members of the Quintessence are not on the LT’s level, and without the Spectre being there would fall quickly to the LT. The Spectre is an unquantifiable mystery imho.
The scrutiny that I place on the subject is the exact same as I would if roles were reversed. In order for Darkseid to sit at this level, he has to prove himself like all others because as he rises in power we need to know what to compare him to, and as of this moment, he has yet to be shown as a peer of the LT’s. We can’t use poor showings for either as a way to say, see, this character is a scrub compared to the other.
What happens if Darkseid reverts to being a Justice League threat? What happens if that team presses him beyond measure and makes him flee? Does that become his average? Korvak literally blew the doors off when he decimated the LT and the Inbetweener. It leaves very little to the imagination.
Perhaps we need more time to see exactly how powerful Darkseid has become in comparison to other true powers? The Upside Down Man isn’t proof enough, nor are the other great powers that stood as his peers.
When are the times that LT lost to genuine power houses? Let’s see, he stalemates Warlock with the IG, takes a loss to the Ivory Kings, who fought him as a team of three. Galactus, when he absorbed the power of the most powerful he’ll lords, and portions of the Dark Dimension which mutated him into being more powerful than the LT could handle. Are there any more showings?
We need proof to mirror the size of the threat, and LT is a huge threat.
Originally posted by Stoic
As far as I can tell, this would be competitive. There isn’t much proof that Sarkseid is more powerful than LT, based upon feats. His Avy’s are mostly weak compared to LT and Cube type power levels. His most powerful form seen in action was when he battled AM. You can toss in a bag of Avy’s and they amount to nothing in comparison to the LT’s power levels. At best you can place him as a peer to the LT, because the Spectre has some really lousy showings.We have no idea how powerful he is from one moment to the next. He’s just another crash test dummy. The members of the Quintessence are not on the LT’s level, and without the Spectre being there would fall quickly to the LT. The Spectre is an unquantifiable mystery imho.
The scrutiny that I place on the subject is the exact same as I would if roles were reversed. In order for Darkseid to sit at this level, he has to prove himself like all others because as he rises in power we need to know what to compare him to, and as of this moment, he has yet to be shown as a peer of the LT’s. We can’t use poor showings for either as a way to say, see, this character is a scrub compared to the other.
What happens if Darkseid reverts to being a Justice League threat? What happens if that team presses him beyond measure and makes him flee? Does that become his average? Korvak literally blew the doors off when he decimated the LT and the Inbetweener. It leaves very little to the imagination.
Perhaps we need more time to see exactly how powerful Darkseid has become in comparison to other true powers? The Upside Down Man isn’t proof enough, nor are the other great powers that stood as his peers.
When are the times that LT lost to genuine power houses? Let’s see, he stalemates Warlock with the IG, takes a loss to the Ivory Kings, who fought him as a team of three. Galactus, when he absorbed the power of the most powerful he’ll lords, and portions of the Dark Dimension which mutated him into being more powerful than the LT could handle. Are there any more showings?
We need proof to mirror the size of the threat, and LT is a huge threat.
"His Avys are mostly weak compared to LT".
Agreed. But not all are. Now combine the ones who aren't weak compared to LT, together.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
"His Avys are [B] mostly weak compared to LT".Agreed. But not all are. Now combine the ones who aren't weak compared to LT, together. [/B]
Power is meaningless when high levels of reality manipulation is involved. Darkseid has never shown dimensional control on that level. A slap in the face and a BFR to the worst Super neighborhood is all that it would take.