Originally posted by Geistalt
So, here we see Vitiate adhering to the Sith Code.Not only does Vitiate rely on the Code as a source of strength; he's also no longer a member of the Sith species (as per Revan).
It's hilarious to see people use fandumb wank and claim he's a "false Sith" or "not a Sith" when there's only out-of-universe evidence against it, though.
LMFAO @ Nyriss conjecture.
Even if it's from Scourge's perspective (ie he's just realizing that), whatever presumedly omniscient medium relates that knowledge doesn't deny it.
The Emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy. When he spoke of life and death, it had far deeper meaning than the mere physical existence of the lesser beings that served him."Does Nyriss know you're here?"
Re: Re: Vitiate is the most powerful Dark Sider ever.
Originally posted by Azronger
No, some random Sith Sorceress achieved the exact same result on Ambria, without needing 8000 Sith Lords. Darth Nihilus would also go on to kill all life on a planet using his own power. It's clearly not unprecedented in the grand scheme of things, even if it may have been at the time.
LMFAO.
She required an orbalisk that literally pierced the sky, which took centuries to build and then she tried to enact a complex Sith ritual, which summoned more power than Naga Sadow used to cause supernovas but it failed. The orbalisk exploded and they all died in the shockwave.
I also love how you tried to take a pot shot at Vitiate using 8,000 Sith Lords against him when you're only serving to hype the nexus. 😂
Originally posted by Azronger
The quote states nothing of the sort. It says the life force of the planets living things was used to prolong his age. Nothing more, nothing less. And the above quote, which states the ritual fueled his power, doesn't mean he absorbed the nexus either. It simply states what's written in the text: that the ritual fueled Vitiate's power. And to what extent is unknown, so claiming he absorbed the entire nexus is unsupported.
Lmfao, can you read? Vitiate was at the center of the ritual, the focus of the ritual. Seeing as your friend likes to quote fallible characters, namely Nyriss:
"Every man, woman, and child on Nathema died that day. Every beast, bird, and fish; all the insects and plants; every living being touched by the Force was consumed. When the ritual ended, Nathema was no longer a world. It was a husk sucked dry. Lord Vitiate sacrificed millions, stealing their life force to make himself immortal. Their deaths also made him stronger than any Sith who had come before, and he ceased to be known as Lord Vitiate. On that day, the Emperor was truly born."
- Darth Nyriss, Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan
"Calling on the dark side, Lord Vitiate devoured them. He fed on their power, absorbing it into himself, utterly obliterating all traces of his victims."
- Darth Nyriss, Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan
Originally posted by Azronger
Based on a false interpretation of a quote, and thus irrelevant. Also canonically not true, since Plagueis' and Sidious' accolades establish him as Vitiate's superior as early as TPM anyway.
It isn't even remotely false, but your denial is delectable. None of which apply to him.
Originally posted by Azronger
All Scourge's description of him tells us is that he is an exceptionally deep wound in the Force. This doesn't put him above Palpatine, who has similar descriptions attributed to him by Plagueis, Tyranus and Maul, and also his minion Blackhole (sub-Vader, I might add) has similar hype.You also haven't proven that what Scourge described is somehow better than bursting open the fabric of space. If Vitiate was indeed more powerful than Palpatine, then we'd see him do it constantly, no?
Oh for the love of Christ.
1.This isn't Scourge's description, this is the narrative.
2.He acts absolutely nothing like a Wound in the Force, it is
exceedingly clear in its reference to the Void of Nathema.
3.Because Vitiate doesn't need to rip open the fabric of space(which by the way could easily be a reference to his Force Storms given that Palpatine isn't portrayed as doing anything of the sort in the Dark Empire series). He was quite literally describe as a physical shell barely holding together the
energy that flowed from him in 'palpable waves'.
Originally posted by Azronger
Right, and this was only achieved due to Ziost being an exceptionally powerful dark side nexus. The spirit of Valkorion, more powerful than Vitiate, couldn't come close to achieving such results on his own, admitting that he couldn't defeat his own children, Arcann and Vaylin, without the Outlander's help. This is also apparent from his performances against his children, which weren't the most admirable, I must say. His best environmental feat is also just downing some ships, which he did while in the Outlander's body, and thus isn't appliccable to his spirit form. It pales in comparison to planetary devastation.
Vitiate is never stated to be capable of drawing on Ziost, and your entire claim falls flat when a far more powerful nexus in Yavin IV was clearly incapable of sustaining such a feat.
Valkorion no longer had any intentions of devouring worlds, but you'd know that if you actually knew anything about his character.
He couldn't defeat Arcann or Vaylin by himself because he escaped his own death by entering the Outlander's mind. Good Lord.
Originally posted by Azronger
Palpatine has also been stated to be that, and also more powerful. Whatever Tenebrae thought of the Sith, it doesn't change the fact that he was described as such by the history books, sourcebooks, and the third person narrator of he Revan novel itself. So even folk like Plagueis are above him, by way of accolades and feats.
This is getting painful to read.
You can't be more powerful than a literal embodiment of the very thing you're powerful in.
All of which are sources predating the revelation that he was never actually a Sith. 😬
Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, no. Vitiate was at no point more destructive than Malachor or Nihilus, and Palpatine was more destructive with his Storms than Vitiate ever was. Also, this isn't a demolitions contest. Palpatine has more personal power than Vitiate could ever dream of, by way of accolades and feats.
Meetra describes Nathema, and by extension, Vitiate, as far worse than either of them. 😬
Ah here comes Force Storm crutching, I hope you realise he isn't even remotely the only person to use these, right? And no, destroying half the surface of Coruscant, gradually, whilst amped by Byss and 20,000,000,000 people providing sustenance isn't the same as rendering Ziost a lifeless void in the Force in the space of two minutes as a weakened spirit.
If only those accolades weren't rendered null by the fact Vitiate, as Geistalt likes to (hilariously) point out, was literally transformed into an embodiment of the Dark Side of the Force.
By the way, the entire Sith Entity Codex Entry you like to point out also predates all of the mountainous statements from Lead Writers, newer Codex Entries, newer Valkorion statements and better yet, common sense.
Originally posted by Geistalt
Even if it's from Scourge's perspective (ie he's just realizing that), whatever presumedly omniscient medium relates that knowledge doesn't deny it.
Yeh, but he still gets it all from Nyriss who then takes him to Nathema to prove it. This is only echoing what she says on the way there.
AP, this isn't hard bud.
Valk saying he's beyond being a sith or light and dark is just bs and part of his act with the outlander(and we know valk was just talking crap with his pitch). Taking his word seriously when he's lying over out of universe/objective statements is beyond stupid.
Valk's a sith entity, and hence is forever will be sub-plagueis trash
Originally posted by Geistalt
Now there's a burden of proof.Where does it say Tenebrae as Valkorion was a Sith Lord?
We can infer it from the fact he was a sith lord before being valk, and its never stated anywhere he stopped being a sith lord.
If you want valk to be designated from vitiate differently, you have to give a solid reason why.
As I see it, him being a sith lord, and still being noted for his mastery of darkside powers, in additiom to his designation as a sith enetiyy all indicate that he's a sith lord.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
valkorian's subjectiv eopinion when he is actively lying to the outlander isn't relevant
'Sith' being used in the context of the organization, not the species, the latter of which the much-touted 'ancient Sith entity' quote was referring to.
Originally posted by slayne
It is. There's no proof whatsoever that he was 'lying' to the Outlander, and he himself is the only source we have on whether he, as Valkorion, is a Sith or not.
And no, he isn't the only source, we have an objective out of universe sourcemsaying that valkorian is a sith entity. Not an entity of the siht species, not valkorian, was a sith. No we have an explicit statement saying valkorian is a sith which is obvious given he's also objectively stated to rely on his "his mastery of the dark" despite all his crap about beyond light or dark.
Did you not pla the final chapter of kotfe? he was lying.
And no, he isn't the only source, we have an objective out of universe sourcemsaying that valkorian is a sith entity. Not an entity of the siht species, not valkorian, was a sith. No we have an explicit statement saying valkorian is a sith
which is obvious given he's also objectively stated to rely on his "his mastery of the dark" despite all his crap about beyond light or dark.
Originally posted by slayne
Valkorion himself literally says that he isn't a Sith anymore. The reaching is honestly getting hilarious at this point.
You're the one reaching. And failing to see the distinction.
And, either way, TPM Sidious is greater.
If anything, it's your "logic" that just bends over for Valk wank that's hilarious.