Re: Re: Re: Vitiate is the most powerful Dark Sider ever.
Originally posted by AncientPower
LMFAO.She required an orbalisk that literally pierced the sky, which took centuries to build and then she tried to enact a complex Sith ritual, which summoned more power than Naga Sadow used to cause supernovas but it failed. The orbalisk exploded and they all died in the shockwave.
I also love how you tried to take a pot shot at Vitiate using 8,000 Sith Lords against him when you're only serving to hype the nexus. 😂
Ah, it seems you are correct.
Lmfao, can you read? Vitiate was at the center of the ritual, the focus of the ritual. Seeing as your friend likes to quote fallible characters, namely Nyriss:
Yes, I can read, and nowhere do I spot a line stating he was at the center, although I'd still imagine that's the case given the ritual's purpose. But Vitiate being in the center doesn't change my point in the slightest: the ritual prolonged Vitiate's age and boosted his power, but to what extent is unknown. It doesn't matter where Vitiate was in it.
And I've no idea what you're attempting to prove by quoting a character, who you've conceded is fallible, because someone else other than me quoted her (apparently).
It isn't even remotely false, but your denial is delectable. None of which apply to him.
It is false until you point out to me from where in In a dark side ritual, he drained the life of his home planet, to achieve immortality did you conclude "he absorbed the entire nexus"? All I can gather from it is that he drained all life from the planet, which in no way means he fused the entire nexus into his very being, as you seem to imply. But please, if I am so in denial then feel free to prove me wrong here.
Oh for the love of Christ.1.This isn't Scourge's description, this is the narrative.
2.He acts absolutely nothing like a Wound in the Force, it is
exceedingly clear in its reference to the Void of Nathema.3.Because Vitiate doesn't need to rip open the fabric of space(which by the way could easily be a reference to his Force Storms given that Palpatine isn't portrayed as doing anything of the sort in the Dark Empire series). He was quite literally describe as a physical shell barely holding together the
energy that flowed from him in 'palpable waves'.
1. Well, yes, but it quite clearly describes what Scourge saw from his point of view, and is thus subject to hyperbole.
2. And how exactly does a wound in the Force "act", then? To me, it is obvious he's a wound, simply by looking at how both he, Surik, and Nihilus, two confirmed wounds, are all described:
"And that is why Malachor echoes within you still. The screams of countless thousands, Jedi and Mandalorians, crushed by the planet's gravity, annihilated. [...] You carry all those deaths at Malachor within you, and it has left a hole, a hunger than cannot be filled."
-KotOR 2 Jedi Council Masters
There was something strange about the Emperor’s voice. It didn’t sound like the voice of a single being. It had an unusual echo and resonance, almost as if a great multitude were speaking his words in perfect symphony.
A grim theory passed unbidden through Scourge’s mind: was it possible all those that had been consumed by the ritual on Nathema still existed in some form within the Emperor himself? Nyriss said he’d devoured them, but what if she was only partially correct? What if he had imprisoned their spirits inside his own corporeal form, slowly feeding on their life energy over a thousand years to keep himself young and strong?
-TOR: Revan
"He has consumed an entire world, but he still hungers. And with his hunger comes an all-consuming fear. He has lived a thousand years; he knows he could live many thousands more. He is terrified of death."
[...]
REVAN COULD FEEL THE EMPEROR FEEDING ON HIM, drawing on his power to sate his endless hunger.
-TOR: Revan
"His power is great, and it comes from hunger.He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake life dies, sacrificing itself to his hunger."
-KotOR 2
Darth Nihilus, a being of pure hunger and dark side power, was approaching the colony.
-TOR Codex
Staring into the hollow darkness of the Emperor’s gaze, Scourge’s mind flashed back to Nathema, and he shivered at the memory.
-TOR: Revan
Exile: "Tell me what you saw."
Visas: "I saw a graveyard world, surrounded by a fleet of dead ships. I felt it through him... as I feel it through you
-KotOR 2
All three carry an echo of the world they were wounded at within them, and all three carry the deaths of those worlds within them also. Each of them also developed an insatiable hunger for life and the Force as a result of feeling so much death at once. So the "void" being referred to here is a wound in the Force, in my opinion. Why I do not think it refers to the void of Nathema is simple: it would make no sense. The novel establishes a clear difference between it and a wound:
The events of Malachor had left a mark on the Force; a wound that would not heal. Here, however, the Force was simply... gone. It was as if someone had ripped it away, leaving only an empty void behind.
If Vitiate was indeed a "void" then that would mean his nature was like is described above, meaning he wouldn't have the Force at all. While I am willing to entertain the idea that Drew Karpyshyn is just that shit of a writer, I'd simply go with him being a wound, and Scourge just didn't know what he was talking about so he described it as best he can. If he was truly like the void at Nathema, he'd be a non-Force sensitive, which he obviously is not.
3. No, it is reference to Palpatine himself. Why he doesn't constantly shred the space around him is because he can simply keep is power under control. Vitiate has never been described in such a manner, nor has this ability been credited to him. Him being a wound or whatever doesn't make him more powerful than Palpatine at all.
Vitiate is never stated to be capable of drawing on Ziost, and your entire claim falls flat when a far more powerful nexus in Yavin IV was clearly incapable of sustaining such a feat.
He doesn't have to draw on the nexus for it to amp him. All Sith spirits are stated to be amped by nexi:
Each dark side spirit has a focal point of power that anchors it in the physical world. For example, the interred Sith Lords of Korriban use their burial sarcophagi to hold their spirits for millennia after death. Freedon Nadd clung to his tomb for countless centuries, waiting for the right opportunity to turn his successor to the dark side. Exar Kun - who didn't technically die so much as merge with the dark side and retain his identity - resisted the dissolution of his spirit by drawing on the remarkable focusing energies of the Massassi temples on Yavin 4.
[...]
Dark side spirits are often connected to a particular dark side location, drawing their strength from an ancient crypt or temple they once inhabited.
-Dark Side sourcebook
Even if Vitiate was able to retain his spirit in the physical world without needing a nexus, it still doesn't change the fact that the nexus would amp him, and that he is capable of drawing on it, like all other Sith spirits.
Evidence for Yavin IV being more potent than Ziost? Not that it debunks my point in any way, since Vitiate first needed to feed a crap ton to regain his strength before he was capable of planetary devastation regardless. So the fact that he couldn't do it on Yavin IV is utterly irrelevant.
Valkorion no longer had any intentions of devouring worlds, but you'd know that if you actually knew anything about his character.
That... is utterly irrelevant here. Whether he had an interest in it or not doesn't change the fact that his feats while possessing the Outlander completely pale in comparison to his Ziost stunt.
He couldn't defeat Arcann or Vaylin by himself because he escaped his own death by entering the Outlander's mind. Good Lord.
I'm not even sure how that sentence makes any sense or what your point here was. How does him being in the Outlander's mind change anything?
This is getting painful to read.You can't be more powerful than a literal embodiment of the very thing you're powerful in.
Which is why, ding ding ding, it's hyperbole. Palpatine is more powerful than Vitiate per objective statements (and is also stated to a living embodiment of the dark side, btw). Clinging to a hyperbolic quote as literal when you dismiss others from the PT era is indicative of double standards.
And yes, you obviously can be, since according to your logic, Vitiate couldn't have gotten any stronger due to being a "living embodiment" of it already, yet he did, which you already conceded in the opening post. So whether you take it literally or not doesn't even matter, since you can clearly get stronger than "a living embodiment of the dark side" and Palpatine is no exception to that.