Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Unfortunately, there are no proper clips of GotG 2 on youtube just yet, but Quill was bobbing, ducking and dodging fire from all sides during the final battle. And Peter doesn't need to do a lot of the wing maneuvers, as his flight gear is much more streamlined. Just because he doesn't pull off the exact same moves doesn't change the end result. He doesn't need to do any rolls or other moves to make those stops/changes in direction. Also, Falcon's wings are two enormous targets for Quill to aim at, unlike his own boots and pack. And considering that Quill's guns have been shown to have a much greater damage output than the bullets Sam's wings have blocked, there is no proof that his wings would be able to withstand even a single shot. After all, the Judas bullets in Luke Cage, as well as various film/tv feats featuring Asgardian metals, have shown us how Earth-based materials compare to space/alien materials.Peter also dodged a near pointblank shot from Korath's energy rifle at the beginning of the first film (without even using flight). And, in terms of durability, later in the film got flung around by Korath without being hurt (and Korath displayed superhuman strength). Also, Star-lord could potentially pin Falcon in place using one of those mines he employed against Korath's men in the first film. Peter is also a very adaptable combatant, as shown in instances like when he stuck one of those rocket propulsion units on Gamora's leg and then remotely sent her flying during their GotG 1 scuffle.
Falcon could win this. But I can see Star-lord pulling it off as well.
I am not saying Falcon is a more effective flyer than Quill (though that can certainly be argued). I'm saying he's a more agile flyer. Quill is not capable of pulling off the maneuvers that Falcon does, not with the same intricacy and not with the same gracefulness. He might be able to do other maneuvers that may or may not be just as effective but in terms of aerial agility, he just not in Falcon's league. In fact, compared to the other flyers in the MCU Starlord seems pretty clunky in that department.
Originally posted by KingD19
You say that, yet he was surrounded by dozens upon dozens of Sovereign ships and was flying around with a jet pack dodging them all for several minutes while blasting them out of the sky. That's better than Falcon dodging the AA fire in Cap 2.
So are you saying you think Starlord can do the same aerial maneuvers that Sam can? The spinning aerial kicks, the cannonball maneuvers?
Because I'm pretty sure if Sam was in Quill's position he wouldn't have had any trouble dodging those sovereign ships either.
Also gonna point out that Falcon is a highly trained US pilot and highly trained with the Falcon system that involves a jet pack and wings for him to actually move around.
Star-Lord has simply been flying stuff(at least the Milano) since he was 10, and is skill enough with his jet boots and jet pack to move around just as easily if not easier than guys like Iron Man who need jet boots, gauntlet thrusters, and jet thrusters to scoot around all weird in the air. Even Falcon.
I'd say Star-Lord is one of the best tech aided flyers we've seen. Definitely right up there with Falcon.
As for h2h, Falcon got taken down by Rumlow and Ant-Man and had to run from Bucky. Peter fought h2h with Gamora(superhuman) and Korath(also superhuman) and was just fine taking extended beatings from them. He was even strong enough to tackle Gamora and Groot around and was one-shotting Kree Soldiers as well as Kyln guards and such. He's got better fighting feats than Falcon who has only ever lost against big names.
Originally posted by KingD19
Also gonna point out that Falcon is a highly trained US pilot and highly trained with the Falcon system that involves a jet pack and wings for him to actually move around.Star-Lord has simply been flying stuff(at least the Milano) since he was 10, and is skill enough with his jet boots and jet pack to move around just as easily if not easier than guys like Iron Man who need jet boots, gauntlet thrusters, and jet thrusters to scoot around all weird in the air. Even Falcon.
I'd say Star-Lord is one of the best tech aided flyers we've seen. Definitely right up there with Falcon.
There's no proof that he has been using that jetpack since he was 10. His ship flying skills are not going to be needed her because his ship is not part of the fight.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I am not saying Falcon is a more effective flyer than Quill (though that can certainly be argued). I'm saying he's a more agile flyer. Quill is not capable of pulling off the maneuvers that Falcon does, not with the same intricacy and not with the same gracefulness. He might be able to do other maneuvers that may or may not be just as effective but in terms of aerial agility, he just not in Falcon's league. In fact, compared to the other flyers in the MCU Starlord seems pretty clunky in that department.
This is a fight. Punisher isn't as graceful a fighter as Daredevil, yet the end result is about the same. Star-lord has proven himself very capable of using his flight skillfully and effectively in combat, gunning down various targets while simultaneously avoiding fire from multiple opponents. Whether you want to call it graceful or not, doing what he did requires a serious amount of aerial skill, agility, as well as accuracy.
Anyway, bottom line is that both these guys have displayed enough aerial skill and ability that neither is tagging the other one easily. However, as I pointed out, Falcon is a much bigger target than Quill is.
Originally posted by FrothByte
There's no proof that he has been using that jetpack since he was 10. His ship flying skills are not going to be needed her because his ship is not part of the fight.
Never said he used the jetpack since he was 10, the parenthesis says at least the Milano, as that's the only thing he stated. Also Rocket only invented them for the group in GotG2. He used the jet boots before that, which he was just as skilled with and had an extra surprise since he could slap them on someone else and remotely operate it.
My point and Vault's stands though, Peter is just as impressive if not more in the air than Falcone.
Originally posted by KingD19
As for h2h, Falcon got taken down by Rumlow and Ant-Man and had to run from Bucky. Peter fought h2h with Gamora(superhuman) and Korath(also superhuman) and was just fine taking extended beatings from them. He was even strong enough to tackle Gamora and Groot around and was one-shotting Kree Soldiers as well as Kyln guards and such. He's got better fighting feats than Falcon who has only ever lost against big names.
Well, Peter has one really big advantage, in terms of a pure H2H bout, in that he is way more durable than Sam, or any regular human for that matter. I honestly don't think Sam would be able to seriously harm him if it came down to a pure fist fight.
Originally posted by KingD19
Never said he used the jetpack since he was 10, the parenthesis says at least the Milano, as that's the only thing he stated. Also Rocket only invented them for the group in GotG2. He used the jet boots before that, which he was just as skilled with and had an extra surprise since he could slap them on someone else and remotely operate it.My point and Vault's stands though, Peter is just as impressive if not more in the air than Falcone.
Oh hell no. Watch the first scenes in GOTG to see just how well (or not well) Quill flies with just those jet boots. He has no hope of competing against the regular MCU flyers if all he has is jet boots.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This is a fight. Punisher isn't as graceful a fighter as Daredevil, yet the end result is about the same. Star-lord has proven himself very capable of using his flight skillfully and effectively in combat, gunning down various targets while simultaneously avoiding fire from multiple opponents. Whether you want to call it graceful or not, doing what he did requires a serious amount of aerial skill, agility, as well as accuracy.Anyway, bottom line is that both these guys have displayed enough aerial skill and ability that neither is tagging the other one easily. However, as I pointed out, Falcon is a much bigger target than Quill is.
You're focusing too much on "graceful" and completely neglecting agility. While there are other aspects that factor into a fight, maneuverability and agility are pretty high factors. Let's not pretend they don't count.
What high end flyer has Quill gone up against that tested his flying skills?
Originally posted by FrothByte
You're focusing too much on "graceful" and completely neglecting agility. While there are other aspects that factor into a fight, maneuverability and agility are pretty high factors. Let's not pretend they don't count.What high end flyer has Quill gone up against that tested his flying skills?
At no point did I pretend those things don't count. And again, he has plenty of maneuverability and agility. He would have been shot to shit at the end of volume 2 if he didn't. He also showed good aerial agility against the Abilisk during the opening fight. He doesn't need to go up against a singular opponent for that to be obvious. If anything, being able to defend against dozens of spaceships at once is better than taking on singular opponents. And for that matter, the two individuals Falcon went up against, IM and WM, didn't use anywhere near their full arsenal against him. If either Tony or Rhodey really wanted to kill Sam, he would have been dead. And again, Falcon has two enormous wings to shoot at. And we know that only one needs to be taken out to render Falcon's flight useless, as seen in TWS.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerWhich it won't since Peter will blast the f out of him. 👆
Well, Peter has one really big advantage, in terms of a pure H2H bout, in that he is way more durable than Sam, or any regular human for that matter. I honestly don't think Sam would be able to seriously harm him if it came down to a pure fist fight.
Originally posted by KingD19
I'm still curious as to how dodging dozens of Sovereign ships firing on him at once makes a good case for Falcon being able to easily hit him.
Easily? No. But Falcon dodged gunfire from automatically aimed guns from hellicarriers, shooting different kinds of rounds (some anti-air). Starlord at least has the excuse that he was being fired at and missed due to human error (or sovereign error if you prefer).
Besdies, fodder aim always sucks. Chitauri, Hydra, Dark Elves, Sovereign... all of them miss stupidly. At least Falcon can say he's fought against Warmachine and IM in the air. What feat can Starlord claim that doesn't involve him fighting fodder in the air?
Also, you're ignoring Falcon's homing missiles.
Originally posted by KingD19
I'm still curious as to how dodging dozens of Sovereign ships firing on him at once makes a good case for Falcon being able to easily hit him.
No I'm sorry, Falcon's flight agility and evasion of attacks he's displayed on screen are far superior to Star Lord's (visually at least).
But I guess we'll have to wait for Gotg2 YouTube vids to make the comparison clear cut.