Again, Falcon fought WM and IM who were holding back and not using anywhere near their full arsenal. He can't compete with them if they go all out. If people disagree, they are welcome to make the threads and see how those turn out.
Also, what are so great about his missiles, considering they couldn't actually hit a Spiderman with an untrained spider-sense or a WM who was flying in a straight line?
I still think that Falcon has a much better shot if he tries flanking Peter, using Redwing.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Again, Falcon fought WM and IM who were holding back and not using anywhere near their full arsenal. He can't compete with them if they go all out. If people disagree, they are welcome to make the threads and see how those turn out.Also, what are so great about his missiles, considering they couldn't actually hit a Spiderman with an untrained spider-sense or a WM who was flying in a straight line?
I still think that Falcon has a much better shot if he tries flanking Peter, using Redwing.
You do realize Falcon also wasn't going all out right? Thus why he wasn't using his more lethal arsenal.
Originally posted by FrothByte
You do realize Falcon also wasn't going all out right? Thus why he wasn't using his more lethal arsenal.
Except he literally shot rockets/missiles at both Spiderman and War Machine, whereas neither Tony or Rhodey did the same to Sam. IM or WM > Falcon, if going all out. Again, if you disagree, feel free to make another thread about it.
Just to be clear, I don't think Star-lord has a snowball's chance in hell of beating a going all out IM or WM either. Both Falcon and Star-lord are a step below those two IMO, which is why I consider them a decent match for each other.
As I said, both are agile (even if you consider Falcon better in that area, Peter is no slouch, plus Falcon is a bigger target), both have decent melee ability when geared up, one is armoured and one has naturaly enhanced durability, and both have enough firepower to hurt/kill the other one if they do land hits. The difference is Falcon has Redwing as a kind of sidekick, whereas Peter has exotic toys, like the energy bola and that magnetic/suction trap thing he used against Korath's men.
I still maintain that both have the potential to win depending on how they utilise their gear.
Why are we using Starlords final fight as a showing for his agility? Wasn't he flying using celestial powers at that point like his dad? I figured thats why Yondu had to fly him off planet at the end when his powers were gone.
Anyway way, Falcon wins in an aerial battle. Quills not tagging him with any of his gear other than MAYBE his standard blaster and even thats reaching considering how Falcon maneuvered between high caliber rounds and IM/Rhodey's repulsors. Meanwhile, Falcon is shooting actual bullets which will tag Quill sooner rather than later considering higher velocity and the fact that Quills natural durability wont stop a bullet.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Why are we using Starlords final fight as a showing for his agility? Wasn't he flying using celestial powers at that point like his dad? I figured thats why Yondu had to fly him off planet at the end when his powers were gone.
He was using a rocket pack and boots before that, when the Sovereign attacked. He later gave his pack away so that some of the others could get away.
Only after that did he and Ego go all DBZ.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
IM or WM > Falcon, if going all out. Again, if you disagree, feel free to make another thread about it.
I don't think anybody's going to disagree with that lol
Point is the way he kept up with them in flight avoid their hits, and was able to get hits on them was damn impressive.
Him evading Vision's blast was also really impressive.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Meanwhile, Falcon is shooting actual bullets which will tag Quill sooner rather than later considering higher velocity and the fact that Quills natural durability wont stop a bullet.
Not just bullets, he has rockets as well. Strong enough to effect War Machine.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I don't think anybody's going to disagree with that lolPoint is the way he kept up with them in flight avoid their hits, and was able to get hits on them was damn impressive.
Him evading Vision's blast was also really impressive.
Not just bullets, he has rockets as well. Strong enough to effect War Machine.
He barely got hits in on IM, and one was when Tony was stationary and not even looking at him. The only other one I can recall was when he got hit by Redwing, which Tony flew right into, like a moron. And what effect did those rockets have on WM? They barely even affected his flight path. He literally had to weave slightly. Falcon also needed other people to run interference for him when IM was in pursuit (Hawkeye and Ant-Man). And the point is that if either IM or WM had bothered to really go hard at Falcon, he most likely would not have survived long enough to do any of that. So, it's not as impressive as people are making it out to be. It's like using the IM and Hulk fights against Thor from Avengers to talk them up without acknowledging the fact that Thor was holding back and not using his full arsenal.
I will give you that the Vision blast dodge was decent, but that's about it.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And what effect did those rockets have on WM? They barely even affected his flight path. He literally had to weave slightly.
Well firstly it seemed as if he was aiming in his path, but not directly at him IIRC.
Second if it was having a such negligible effect on him then why ask Vision to intervene.
And jeez it was a good job Falcon evaded Vision's blast, cause that shot would have killed him for sure.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well firstly it seemed as if he was aiming in his path, but not directly at him IIRC.Second if it was having a such negligible effect on him then why ask Vision to intervene.
And jeez it was a good job Falcon evaded Vision's blast, cause that shot would have killed him for sure.
Because they were actively pursuing Cap and Bucky, and couldn't afford any potential distractions at that point (making what ended up happening kind of ironic). Which is why he initially asked Vision to intervene before he fired off the rockets, "Vision, I've got a bandit on my 6". He had to ask a second time, after the rockets were fired, because Vision was too focused on Scarlet Witch. And we visibly see that it barely threw him off course, never mind had any serious effect on his suit.
And I already said dodging that blast was good. And Vision was being emo at the time because of Wanda and f***** up, which he himself admitted later.
^ My point is if he wasn't a threat or even a distraction then he wouldn't bother calling Vision. Or just say it once, he certainly wouldn't say it a second time.
But given he's fought him earlier he knows his level of threat.
Also again Falcon didn't seem to even be aiming directly at him Iirc, but will have to double check that.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ My point is if he wasn't a threat or even a distraction then he wouldn't bother calling Vision. Or just say it once, he certainly wouldn't say it a second time.But given he's fought him earlier he knows his level of threat.
Also again Falcon didn't seem to even be aiming directly at him Iirc, but will have to double check that.
Why wouldn't he say it twice, when Vision notably failed to respond the first time? His attention was focused on the Quinjet, and he clearly wanted to keep his focus there, hence why he contacted Vision to get rid of Falcon. He was perfectly capable of turning around and facing off against Falcon himself, but that would have compromised the pursuit of Cap and Bucky. And there is a huge difference between being a distraction and actually being a threat.
He mostly chased Falcon around you mean, where Falcon never managed to hit him with any rockets either.
Bottom line is you have zero concrete proof that Falcon's rockets would pose any real threat to WM, especially when the latter can tank getting hit by an exploding gas truck (which is far more destructive than any of Falcon's rockets/missiles have shown to be). And, quite frankly, what does it matter? It's already been acknowledged that Peter won't be tanking any rockets if he gets hit.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerHe mostly chased Falcon around you mean, where Falcon never managed to hit him with any rockets either.
Was Falcon even aiming for direct hits?
Given how he chases to save WM after he's hit by Vision, I'd say that's unlikely.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Bottom line is you have zero concrete proof that Falcon's rockets would pose any real threat to WM,
Why exactly do I need to prove that when WM was specifically calling for Vision to deal with him?
You can speculate all you want on that but the obvious reasoning would be he didn't want Falcon to stop him ergo Falcon potentially could stop him if he's not fully focused on him.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
especially when the latter can tank getting hit by an exploding gas truck (which is far more destructive than any of Falcon's rockets/missiles have shown to be).
And exactly how many military grade rockets is that exploding gas tank supposed to equal?
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And, quite frankly, what does it matter? It's already been acknowledged that Peter won't be tanking any rockets if he gets hit.
Because you're taking the argument the wrong way. No one's claiming Falcon >/= WM. What we're saying is he did some impressive flying and combat and dodging against them (IM. WM & Vision). Add that to the almost limitless firepower he was evading in WS, plus his multiple rockets and Red Wing, then yeah, minus any celestial boost for Quill, Falcon looks way more impressive.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Was Falcon even aiming for direct hits?Given how he chases to save WM after he's hit by Vision, I'd say that's unlikely.
You're missing the point. You claimed he would know the danger level because of what happened earlier, yet Falcon failed to do much more than run away from him. Yet, according to you, he would know that Falcon could stop him with his arsenal, which is why he called Vision.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Why exactly do I need to prove that when WM was specifically calling for Vision to deal with him?You can speculate all you want on that but the obvious reasoning would be he didn't want Falcon to stop him ergo Falcon potentially could stop him if he's not fully focused on him.
You say I am speculating yet that's exactly what you were doing. Cap and Bucky were flying off with the Quinjet. They already had a head start. Even a small delay would have hampered the pursuit. Him asking Vision to deal with Sam in no way proves that he would/could "stop" him. Because, to me, it is pretty obvious that if you are busy pursuing someone, any kind of distraction is best avoided. It's literally the most tactically sound choice. If you are occupied, and one of your teammates isn't, then delegate the secondary task to them.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
And exactly how many military grade rockets is that exploding gas tank supposed to equal?
Dude, you can visibly see the difference in destructive power. Also, Iron Man, whose suit was weaker than War Machine's in this, took one of Clint's exploding arrows to the chest, and it failed to cause any serious damage. In previous films, Iron Man suits have been hit with actual missiles from individuals like Iron Monger without sustaining significant damage (and, in that case, the missile in question turned a bus into a giant fireball). I have now mentioned feats for both those suits taking explosions without significant damage so, other than your interpretation of the call to Vision, what actual feats do you have to support the idea that those rockets would seriously harm him. Who has he actually taken down with them that compares to WM in terms of durability?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because you're taking the argument the wrong way. No one's claiming Falcon >/= WM. What we're saying is he did some impressive flying and combat and dodging against them (IM. WM & Vision). Add that to the almost limitless firepower he was evading in WS, plus his multiple rockets and Red Wing, then yeah, minus any celestial boost for Quill, Falcon looks way more impressive.
Not at all. Right now, I am simply disputing the notion that Falcon's rockets could do serious damage to WM. I already acknowledged that Falcon's weapons would hurt Peter. And Peter had impressive aerial agility against dozens of Sovereign ships from multiple directions. His blasters can obliterate alien metals, and he has things like the trap he used against Korath's mean, which doesn't actually require a direct hit. It just needs to get close.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Except he literally shot rockets/missiles at both Spiderman and War Machine, whereas neither Tony or Rhodey did the same to Sam. IM or WM > Falcon, if going all out. Again, if you disagree, feel free to make another thread about it.
No one here is saying that Falcon can beat IM or WM. I'm just pointing out that Falcon playing aerial tag with IM and WM (and even Vision) is a lot more impressive than Starlord going up against random fodder, because we all know fodder aim is crappy. And the fact that IM and WM weren't able to easily overpower Falcon in their brief exchanges is also worth noting.
Also, are you saying Falcon was going all out against IM, WM and Spiderman?
Originally posted by FrothByte
No one here is saying that Falcon can beat IM or WM. I'm just pointing out that Falcon playing aerial tag with IM and WM (and even Vision) is a lot more impressive than Starlord going up against random fodder, because we all know fodder aim is crappy. And the fact that IM and WM weren't able to easily overpower Falcon in their brief exchanges is also worth noting.Also, are you saying Falcon was going all out against IM, WM and Spiderman?
Wait, dodging one blast now constitutes as playing aerial tag with Vision? Okay then. And yet that "fodder" was hitting the Guardians ships once they got the kill order greenlight. You are basing your argument off your own generalisation. Not all fodder automatically shoot like Storm Troopers. Nobu's Hand ninjas are technically "fodder", yet it was shown time and time again that if Matt didn't dodge/catch/deflect their arrows that they would have found their mark.
What are these exchanges? Post all these physical scuffles they had if you are going to keep bringing them up. I can literally recall a single one that we don't even really see, where Falcon manages to break out of IM's grip via unknown means. Other than that and the instance of cheapshot kicking IM, I don't recall Falcon physically tussling with them. By all means, if I am wrong, post the clips of it happening.
Where did I say that? But, based on the weaponry he did use, he seemed to be going harder. And the big difference is Falcon going all out is a lot less dangerous to IM or WM than them going all out is to him. It's questionable whether anything in Falcon's arsenal could seriously harm IM or WM, whereas we know they have the firepower to straight up kill him.