Doom vs Hal Jordan

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
It is a retcon, get over it. Doom still have some good feats of will.

Galan, for you, who wins this?

No it ain't. A retcon is:

"(in a film, television series, or other fictional work) a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events, typically used to facilitate a dramatic plot shift or account for an inconsistency."

There is no new interpretation of what happened. What happened was just actively undone through the actions of characters. EDUCATION!

New information was impose. He was saved by Thunderbolts.

On second thought, it is a type of retcon that doesn't require new info. Still valid feat IMO since it originally happens in continuity.

g007_derp

I guess the simplistic meaning/purpose of a retcon is also lost on you, eh? Well at least you're consistent in that you incessantly twist basic on panel/canon evidence, to try and suit these half-assed arguments of yours, lol.

You: "Doomz will alone kept him alive after MOD sent him to the past."
Everyone else with a brain: "That was actually retconned and is now non-canon, bud. Doom was saved by the T-Bolts *see scans*."
You: "Well it still counts cuz it wuz canon at one point!!!!!!trololololololololol!!!!!!"

This type of stuff is just priceless... Keep it coming. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
g007_derp

I guess the simplistic meaning/purpose of a [b]retcon is also lost on you, eh? Well at least you're consistent in that you incessantly twist basic on panel/canon evidence, to try and suit these half-assed arguments of yours, lol.

You: "Doomz will alone kept him alive after MOD sent him to the past."
Everyone else with a brain: "That was actually retconned and is now non-canon, bud. Doom was saved by the T-Bolts *see scans*."
You: "Well it still counts cuz it wuz canon at one point!!!!!!trololololololololol!!!!!!"

This type of stuff is just priceless... Keep it coming. 👆 [/B]

Case in point. The offended will stalk. 😆

Doom's will is absolute.

You're a sloven fool if you disagree, and I'll bludgeon your family to death with your bones after I've rend the flesh from them.

Originally posted by Mindset
Doom's will is absolute.

You're a sloven fool if you disagree, and I'll bludgeon your family to death with your bones after I've rend the flesh from them.

Originally posted by Cogito
Doom is like the Superman of Marvel in willpower. Absolutely beastly, and if you had asked me 5-10 years ago I would have put those two at their respective tops without hesitation.

But then Johns got a hold of Hal, and started wanking. Hard. Now Hal does shit on the regular that shouldn't be possible, but then the excuse is "cuz willpower" and I guess that's cool. I mean, Hal just recently literally discorporated and became willpower. The thing that really sealed it though is when they made Hal's willpower a link to the spark of creation itself. His connection with willpower itself is stronger than the GL central battery, according to Volthoom (who knows a thing or two about that).

So yeah, Hal wins right now. Doom would have had a strong case 5-10 years ago, and probably will 5-10 years from now.

This.

doom could ........ doom would ..........

Originally posted by Cogito
Doom is like the Superman of Marvel in willpower. Absolutely beastly, and if you had asked me 5-10 years ago I would have put those two at their respective tops without hesitation.

But then Johns got a hold of Hal, and started wanking. Hard. Now Hal does shit on the regular that shouldn't be possible, but then the excuse is "cuz willpower" and I guess that's cool. I mean, Hal just recently literally discorporated and became willpower. The thing that really sealed it though is when they made Hal's willpower a link to the spark of creation itself. His connection with willpower itself is stronger than the GL central battery, according to Volthoom (who knows a thing or two about that).

So yeah, Hal wins right now. Doom would have had a strong case 5-10 years ago, and probably will 5-10 years from now.

Some years ago, I'd have been able to argue that Superman has a stronger will than Hal [in fact, Hal explicitly states it]. Now, not so more.

Yeah, if Alan Scott wrote the original Book of Willpower, Hal Jordan was undoubtedly the author of Part II. 👆

On a sidenote: I cannot wait to see Hal unleash against Sarko /w/ Krona's Gauntlet... I'd imagine there will be even more to add to his already substantial pedigree afterward. 😄

In regards to Doom being retconed and weather it counts or not, I think people are arguing the issue because the thunderbolts didn't do anything to Doom that would effect his will power and weather or not he could have done it. If they had gone back in time and filled a lake victor swam in with sharks and he was attacked, that might effect Dooms willpower during that incident. All they did was stop him from doing it.

Originally posted by Aakla
In regards to Doom being retconed and weather it counts or not, I think people are arguing the issue because the thunderbolts didn't do anything to Doom that would effect his will power and weather or not he could have done it. If they had gone back in time and filled a lake victor swam in with sharks and he was attacked, that might effect Dooms willpower during that incident. All they did was stop him from doing it.

Without the retcon:
Doom was eaten alive but survived by will power (!?)

With the retcon:
He never was eaten alive. There is no feat in this.

This is a big difference.

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Without the retcon:
Doom was eaten alive but survived by will power (!?)

With the retcon:
He never was eaten alive. There is no feat in this.

This is a big difference.

It's not a hard concept to grasp...

In the original scene, Doom is torn limb-from-limb by the sharks, but allegedly survived with nothing other than his hate/will:

Conversely, the retconned(and most importantly: canon) scene revealed that the Thunderbolts SAVED Doom from the sharks BEFORE they were able to so much as nibble on him:

...Which is obviously not a feat for Doom at all, lol.

The feet was retconed Dooms will to accomplish it wasn't. The feet was retconed Doom's will wasn't.
I understand the rules I'm just clarifying the issue. I understand a retcon is a retcon.

We will never know if he could do that or not. You can say he can, but is just a theory.

For now...Doom just lied to the FF. This remind me the issue of Loki agent of Asgard, when Doom says..."Doom is the history of Doom".

He still have the feat of waiting for millions of years to the revenge (would be the best feat of will power for most of characters).

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
We will never know if he could do that or not. You can say he can, but is just a theory.

For now...Doom just lied to the FF. This remind me the issue of Loki agent of Asgard, when Doom says..."Doom is the history of Doom".

He still have the feat of waiting for millions of years to the revenge (would be the best feat of will power for most of characters).

I'm just realizing now your confusion with regard to the events. Doom doesn't lie to the FF. A 25 million year old Doom who survives being ripped apart is telling Reed truthfully what had happened.

In the later Thunderbolts issue, Doom is not only saved from being ripped apart, but uses the Thunderbolt's time machine to come back to the present. Thus he never even has to survive 25 million years. He's back to the present in maybe an hour or so, thus wiping out Mark Miller's FF arc.

You see, Mark Miller left his FF run having left behind a Dr. Doom who had spent 25 million years accumulating enough power to be anywhere from Skyfather to Galactus level if not more and with a markedly different look. Since subsequent writers ignored this and continued to write standard Doom, the Thunderbolts writer took it on himself to explain why this is.

So Aakia's point is that we do know that Doom has the will power to heal after being ripped apart because we see it confirmed in-continuity before the entire event is wiped out by time travel.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
I'm just realizing now your confusion with regard to the events. Doom doesn't lie to the FF. A 25 million year old Doom who survives being ripped apart is telling Reed truthfully what had happened.

In the later Thunderbolts issue, Doom is not only saved from being ripped apart, but uses the Thunderbolt's time machine to come back to the present. Thus he never even has to survive 25 million years. He's back to the present in maybe an hour or so, thus wiping out Mark Miller's FF arc.

You see, Mark Miller left his FF run having left behind a Dr. Doom who had spent 25 million years accumulating enough power to be anywhere from Skyfather to Galactus level if not more and with a markedly different look. Since subsequent writers ignored this and continued to write standard Doom, the Thunderbolts writer took it on himself to explain why this is.

So Aakia's point is that we do know that Doom has the will power to heal after being ripped apart because we see it confirmed in-continuity before the entire event is wiped out by time travel.

Thank you, I suck at explaining things.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
I'm just realizing now your confusion with regard to the events. Doom doesn't lie to the FF. A 25 million year old Doom who survives being ripped apart is telling Reed truthfully what had happened.

In the later Thunderbolts issue, Doom is not only saved from being ripped apart, but uses the Thunderbolt's time machine to come back to the present. Thus he never even has to survive 25 million years. He's back to the present in maybe an hour or so, thus wiping out Mark Miller's FF arc.

You see, Mark Miller left his FF run having left behind a Dr. Doom who had spent 25 million years accumulating enough power to be anywhere from Skyfather to Galactus level if not more and with a markedly different look. Since subsequent writers ignored this and continued to write standard Doom, the Thunderbolts writer took it on himself to explain why this is.

So Aakia's point is that we do know that Doom has the will power to heal after being ripped apart because we see it confirmed in-continuity before the entire event is wiped out by time travel.

👆

And Doom may have kept himself alive, Hal straight up resurrected himself when it was said that GL ring can't resurrect people in GL v5 20.

That's called willpower.