Doom vs Hal Jordan

Originally posted by abhilegend
So it's a retcon and thus not usable as a feat. In the current timeline he just lied about all those changes.

👆

Per Marvel canon, the Thunderbolts SAVED Doom from the sharks BEFORE they ever attacked him -- his 'willpower' had NOTHING to do with said survival. IOW, Doom's 'version' of the story is a straight-up LIE... A character's LIE =/= a usable feat, lol.

The Doom supporters have really lost their touch... Trying to use a retconned non-feat on his behalf is just an embarrassment to the character. 😂

As I stated, The Apprentice of the Marquis of Death (who is a powered up Dr. Doom) doesn't lie. Those events happened in-continuity. They are valid as evidence. Not sure how they relate to board rules.

Doom doesn't have a GL ring to help him survive. He just has his human self.

Originally posted by Cogito
Doom is like the Superman of Marvel in willpower. Absolutely beastly, and if you had asked me 5-10 years ago I would have put those two at their respective tops without hesitation.

But then Johns got a hold of Hal, and started wanking. Hard. Now Hal does shit on the regular that shouldn't be possible, but then the excuse is "cuz willpower" and I guess that's cool. I mean, Hal just recently literally discorporated and became willpower. The thing that really sealed it though is when they made Hal's willpower a link to the spark of creation itself. His connection with willpower itself is stronger than the GL central battery, according to Volthoom (who knows a thing or two about that).

So yeah, Hal wins right now. Doom would have had a strong case 5-10 years ago, and probably will 5-10 years from now.

There isn't much reason to think that he can't lose now. Suspense lost

Originally posted by TheHulkster
As I stated, The Apprentice of the Marquis of Death (who is a powered up Dr. Doom) doesn't lie. Those events happened in-continuity. They are valid as evidence. Not sure how they relate to board rules.

Doom doesn't have a GL ring to help him survive. He just has his human self.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Hal is broken now and anything that happens in his comics will always have readers thinking about his willpower overcoming whatever or whomever he faces no matter the level cause of Johns' writing.

There isn't much reason to think that he can't lose now. Suspense lost

It's not the same as that and you know it, unless you think Hulk can beat anyone he faces but doesn't due to writer's whim cause Pak according to you confirmed him being unbeatable

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

Per Marvel canon, the Thunderbolts SAVED Doom from the sharks BEFORE they ever attacked him -- his 'willpower' had NOTHING to do with said survival. IOW, Doom's 'version' of the story is a straight-up LIE... A character's LIE =/= a usable feat, lol.

The Doom supporters have really lost their touch... Trying to use a retconned non-feat on his behalf is just an embarrassment to the character. 😂

- first being Doom surviving based on his willpower, then somebody going back to change the timeline so that it wasn't the way it happened
- the second being from what I understand, that the timeline ALWAYS being that Doom was saved by Thunderbolts, and nothing was really changed at all.

From what I understand, the latter happened, no? As in, him being sliced apart by sharks being just an untrue story, and he was always saved by the Thunderbolts?

The first would be overwriting the timeline with time-travel, while the latter is a straight-up retcon.

And that's my point. It appears to be an overwrite of the timeline.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
It's not the same as that and you know it, unless you think Hulk can beat anyone he faces but doesn't due to writer's whim cause Pak according to you confirmed him being unbeatable

Pak literally had Hulk kill three of his most powerful villains by Shockwave of his punches. Even Johns had better sense than that.

Except Johns is less fanboyish and is sometimes a good writer.

Guy named "Worldbreaker" breaks world and it's a surprise...? Not to mention the event was something built upon for decades as Pak put in almost every character Hulk had issue with over several arcs (including the Red Hulk stuff by other writers) all culminating into said moment.

Hal just did something that readers to this day have no idea he could do and it shouldn't have happened (like that anyway) but you have to accept it because it's comics

This is about Hal so I will not be suckered into an off-topic reach to deflect from the issues of Hal's writing in a thread about HAL

Originally posted by Phil
think there needs to be a distinction here

- first being Doom surviving based on his willpower, then somebody going back to change the timeline so that it wasn't the way it happened
- the second being from what I understand, that the timeline ALWAYS being that Doom was saved by Thunderbolts, and nothing was really changed at all.

From what I understand, the latter happened, no? As in, him being sliced apart by sharks being just an untrue story, and he was always saved by the Thunderbolts?

The first would be overwriting the timeline with time-travel, while the latter is a straight-up retcon.

Doom was NEVER actually torn to bits by the sharks -- he was ALWAYS saved by the T-bolts. IOW, when Doom told the F4 that he survived said attack solely because of his hate/will, he was LYING. Plain and simple. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed. 👆

...Not that canon facts matter to ol' Hulkie-boy, but it's still good to point out nonetheless. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed the latter is the ONLY event that happened canonically, per Marvel. That is the entire point of a retcon -- it erases a past event, and replaces it with the new version.

Doom was NEVER actually torn to bits by the sharks -- he was ALWAYS saved by the T-bolts. IOW, when Doom told the F4 that he survived said attack solely because of his hate/will, he was LYING. Plain and simple. 👆

Then it's pretty clear it doesn't apply to Doom. It's like saying Pre-Retcon Beyond's feats apply to CC Beyonder.

Originally posted by RadZoa
What comic is that from? issue # ?

Originally posted by Phil
Then it's pretty clear it doesn't apply to Doom. It's like saying Pre-Retcon Beyond's feats apply to CC Beyonder.

Well if the story wasn't overwritten, this is a hell of a feat for Doom. He'd kick Darkseid's ass.

But dont help him here in a will contest.

Out of curiosity, there are any handbook entry about this event?

And we can that no one in Marvel/DC is a match to Hal will at this moment?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Well if the story wasn't overwritten, this is a hell of a feat for Doom. He'd kick Darkseid's ass.

You're beginning to do to Doom what quanchi did to Thanos. Unfortunate as it may be(I really like Doom), it's still hysterical to watch you in action... Keep it coming, lol. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
I guess if you can't use retconned material, 'feats' that took place entirely off-panel are the next best thing, eh? I mean, we have absolutely NO idea how Doom 'beat' the Watcher -- he could have used the IG for all we know. After all, he lied about surviving the shark attack on his own, so who's to say he didn't also lie about how the Watcher was killed? mmm

You're beginning to do to Doom what quanchi did to Thanos. Unfortunate as it may be(I really like Doom), it's still hysterical to watch you in action... Keep it coming, lol. 👆

Good Doom feats.

https://erlern.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ff_568_13.jpg

So son. Did Quanchi sleep with your sister or something? You can't get him off of your pea brain.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Good Doom feats.

https://erlern.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/ff_568_13.jpg

So son. Did Quanchi sleep with your sister or something? You can't get him off of your pea brain.

I don't have a sister. That joke would have been super-funny if I did, though. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
So he's stronger than Johnny and Thing, eh? Holy smokes!!!! g007_derp

I don't have a sister. That joke would have been super-funny if I did, though. 👆

Well since you have no girlfriend, I figured....

Of course that scan shows Doom slinging him with TK. If you weren't a pre-school drop-out, you could see that the portrayal is one of an enhanced Doom. He is even shown standing over The Watcher without mentioning his name to Reed.

Maybe you should resume trying to convince us that the scientists in OWAW were wrong LOL.

😱

Good one! 👆