Wolverine without claws vs Captain America (w/shield)

Originally posted by Ize19
... it took place in the same issue, genius. Wolverine's fight with the private army and assassination squad took place just a few hours before Mr. X knocked him out. And yeah, his healing factor repaired his injuries and allowed him to fight at full strength, but when he takes that much damage, it takes longer than a few hours for the healing factor to be at full capacity again. So, unless Cap is dishing out equivalent damage to that, without receiving just as much damage in return, at the very least, he has no chance of winning this.

👆

Morrison was another writer who liked his Wolverine to heal really fast... and he knew well how it worked, too. That's why we were shown those panels of Logan meditating in the woods.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]True. I gave up reading Cap and all X Comics back in the mid to late 90's. Especially gave up on Cap when they stared making him TOO SuperHuman. Lost his appeal at that point.

Which is a big reason why I was never a big Little Jimmy Fan. [/B]

Which is why you shouldn't even be allowed to post here, lol.

Hilarious thing is... you have no problem accepting all of Lobo's feats or any other characters you like. Heh. Biased little turd.

Mainly because Lobo was written by the same few persons for the vast majority of his org run. Unlike Cap and Little Jimmy where nearly EVERY Wilbur and Wilma has taken a shot at and added their own spins to .

Which kind of invalidates your stated opinon given earlier.

Everybody and their mother was writing Lobo, same as with Deadpool. Stop lying.

Since you so care about Lobo's history, do remember the time when he got repeatedly pimpslapped by the Batman 👆

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
👆

Morrison was another writer who liked his Wolverine to heal really fast... and he knew well how it worked, too. That's why we were shown those panels of Logan meditating in the woods.

Perfect example. He'd completely regenerated an arm from just the bone, in a few panels. Next issue, he's been meditating for a few days, to speed up his healing factor's recovery. And he wasn't nearly as damaged by that fight as he was by X's army and henchmen.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Everybody and their mother was writing Lobo, same as with Deadpool. Stop lying.

Since you so care about Lobo's history, do remember the time when he got repeatedly pimpslapped by the Batman 👆

Guest Apps in other books don't count. I am talking in SPECIFIC Character Title Books. Lobo in the day was written by Giffen and Grant almost Exclusevily especially in the 90's. How many writers did either Cap or Little Jimmy go thru during that decade?

ANd this is a thread title all its own.

GET IT BACK ON TOPIC!

Which is Both Cap and Little Jimmy suck with out their TOOLS.

End thread.

Originally posted by Ize19
... it took place in the same issue, genius. Wolverine's fight with the private army and assassination squad took place just a few hours before Mr. X knocked him out. And yeah, his healing factor repaired his injuries and allowed him to fight at full strength, but when he takes that much damage, it takes longer than a few hours for the healing factor to be at full capacity again. So, unless Cap is dishing out equivalent damage to that, without receiving just as much damage in return, at the very least, he has no chance of winning this.

No. it started an issue before that, and continued to the issue where they fought. however, once again you are ignoring his healing factor and saying he was hurt during his fight vs mister X. thats just wrong since when he faced mister x he was fine. it wasnt stated or implyed that wolverine was hurt or wasnt at his fullest. if you believe he was hurt the burden of proof is on you. also, when did ogun possess that huge goon? he was easily taken out by wolverine who also made fun of him for being dumb and fighting with a freakin tie which helped wolverine choke him out.

Originally posted by Dareangel
No. it started an issue before that, and continued to the issue where they fought. however, once again you are ignoring his healing factor and saying he was hurt during his fight vs mister X. thats just wrong since when he faced mister x he was fine. it wasnt stated or implyed that wolverine was hurt or wasnt at his fullest. if you believe he was hurt the burden of proof is on you. also, when did ogun possess that huge goon? he was easily taken out by wolverine who also made fun of him for being dumb and fighting with a freakin tie which helped wolverine choke him out.

Now I know why you call Logan Little Jimmy.

You don't who Logan is. Certainly don't know how his HF works, and the skills he shows when he doesn't use his claws.

Originally posted by Dareangel
No. it started an issue before that, and continued to the issue where they fought. however, once again you are ignoring his healing factor and saying he was hurt during his fight vs mister X. thats just wrong since when he faced mister x he was fine. it wasnt stated or implyed that wolverine was hurt or wasnt at his fullest. if you believe he was hurt the burden of proof is on you. also, when did ogun possess that huge goon? he was easily taken out by wolverine who also made fun of him for being dumb and fighting with a freakin tie which helped wolverine choke him out.

There was no time skip in between issues, and as you said, the fight that started in the previous issue, was continued in the same issue where he fought Mr X (by the way, "the previous issue and the same issue" is very different than "several issues before"😉. Wolverine was healed, but his healing factor wasn't given time to recover.

He's always needed time, going back to Claremont's run on X-Men, to Hama's run on Wolverine, continuing past this fight to Morrison's run on X-Men, as Stilt pointed out. It doesn't need to be stated every time, it's basic knowledge of the character that his healing factor doesn't have infinite energy.

Wolverine can tell Ogun was possessing him in the following issue, when he sees Ogun's demon form haunting him. It wouldn't be the first time Ogun's toyed with him, especially if he wanted Wolverine to meet Mr X.

Anyway, the point I was making was that it's inaccurate to claim Mr X overcame Wolverine's healing factor, because it was clearly X's private army, his "General," his assassination squad, and him personally who overcame it. Stating otherwise is simply incorrect.

Originally posted by Ize19
There was no time skip in between issues, and as you said, the fight that started in the previous issue, was continued in the same issue where he fought Mr X (by the way, "the previous issue and the same issue" is very different than "several issues before"😉. Wolverine was healed, but his healing factor wasn't given time to recover.

He's always needed time, going back to Claremont's run on X-Men, to Hama's run on Wolverine, continuing past this fight to Morrison's run on X-Men, as Stilt pointed out. It doesn't need to be stated every time, it's basic knowledge of the character that his healing factor doesn't have infinite energy.

Wolverine can tell Ogun was possessing him in the following issue, when he sees Ogun's demon form haunting him. It wouldn't be the first time Ogun's toyed with him, especially if he wanted Wolverine to meet Mr X.

Anyway, the point I was making was that it's inaccurate to claim Mr X overcame Wolverine's healing factor, because it was clearly X's private army, his "General," his assassination squad, and him personally who overcame it. Stating otherwise is simply incorrect.

again, if you believe wolverine wasnt at his fullest and finest you have to present the evidence. last thing that happened before that wat wolverine dropping down a glass ceiling on top of that huge bodyguard while making fun of him. wolverine was perfectly fine when he faces MISTER X due to his healing factor. it was never stated he wasnt at his fullest. if you believe otherwise back it up with evidence and not assumptions since they have no weight compared to whats presented.

wolverines healing factor is depicted differently thruought the entire comics career. sometimes he handles dozens of yakuza members shooting him stabing him and burning him. sometimes he handles a nuke with a smile. sometimes he heals instantly with a smile on his face. sometimes it takes him plenty of time to recover from cars hitting him. however in this specific issue, and its all that matters, he was depicted as being perfectly fine when facing mister X.

again, is there any evidence ogun possessed that huge guy? not that it matters but still.

for the thousand time, if you believe wolverine was taxed during his fight with mister X please present the evidence. there was no such statement. if that was indeed the situation, it would probably be stated as wolverines thoughts. something like "damn all that rumble taxed my healing factor(which would be laughable to say the least)". however wolverine was making fun of the bodyguard before that and depicted as perfectly fine.

Originally posted by emu
You're all over the place.

Now I know why you call Logan Little Jimmy.

You don't who Logan is. Certainly don't know how his HF works, and the skills he shows when he doesn't use his claws.

what the hell are you talking about...

Originally posted by Dareangel
what the hell are you talking about...

I'm just letting you know skimming scans for a vs forum isnt the same as reading the issues, and then representing the scans with proper context.

Logan had two issues of damage that would of killed Cap 50 times over...... read the issues, and you get your context.

Originally posted by emu
Ize19 explains it far better than I can.

I'm just letting you know skimming scans for a vs forum isnt the same as reading the issues, and then representing the scans with proper context.

Logan had two issues of damage that would of killed Cap 50 times over...... read the issues, and you get your context.

well then if ize19 is doing a better job maybe you will let him do the talking?

as for reading the issues, i was collecting wolverine comics ever since i was a kid. i am preety sure i know better than you about wolverine. as a wolverine fan i know not to use the idiotic argument of "but but he takez da hulk panjez". when i see someone using that, i know he doesnt know crap about wolverine.

let me educate you about the issue. wolverine was stabbed, shot and burned. nothing and i repeat NOTHING he doesnt eat for breakfast on regular basis with a smile on his face. you trying to present it as some extreme punishment to him is laughable. as pointed out, maybe it is you who should read the comics again and come back to tell us, was wolverine injured or hurt during his fight vs mister X. if you are willing to say yes, you better back that up with somethines presented in the comics, since the comics itself depicted him as perfectly fine thanks to his healing factor. the fact such damage could kill Cap has no relevance at all to the subject.

i agree that ize19 does it better than you, leave the discussion to him. backstage cheerleading is.... you know...

Originally posted by Dareangel
well then if ize19 is doing a better job maybe you will let him do the talking?

as for reading the issues, i was collecting wolverine comics ever since i was a kid. i am preety sure i know better than you about wolverine. as a wolverine fan i know not to use the idiotic argument of "but but he takez da hulk panjez". when i see someone using that, i know he doesnt know crap about wolverine.

let me educate you about the issue. wolverine was stabbed, shot and burned. nothing and i repeat NOTHING he doesnt eat for breakfast on regular basis with a smile on his face. you trying to present it as some extreme punishment to him is laughable. as pointed out, maybe it is you who should read the comics again and come back to tell us, was wolverine injured or hurt during his fight vs mister X. if you are willing to say yes, you better back that up with somethines presented in the comics, since the comics itself depicted him as perfectly fine thanks to his healing factor. the fact such damage could kill Cap has no relevance at all to the subject.

i agree that ize19 does it better than you, leave the discussion to him. backstage cheerleading is.... you know...

Lol. I'll hand you my blackened soul on a platter, if you do know Wolverine better than me 👆

Can take punishment that would wreck Cap (indeed relevent considering the thread lulz) but his factor has a limit.
If you think Logans healing factor is recharged after every repair job (is what you're implying) you do a shit job of reading Wolverine comics.

You are all over the place, and I bet you're sober.
Shame.

Haha, I thought you were Flyattracter lol.

Originally posted by Dareangel
again, if you believe wolverine wasnt at his fullest and finest you have to present the evidence. last thing that happened before that wat wolverine dropping down a glass ceiling on top of that huge bodyguard while making fun of him. wolverine was perfectly fine when he faces MISTER X due to his healing factor. it was never stated he wasnt at his fullest. if you believe otherwise back it up with evidence and not assumptions since they have no weight compared to whats presented.

wolverines healing factor is depicted differently thruought the entire comics career. sometimes he handles dozens of yakuza members shooting him stabing him and burning him. sometimes he handles a nuke with a smile. sometimes he heals instantly with a smile on his face. sometimes it takes him plenty of time to recover from cars hitting him. however in this specific issue, and its all that matters, he was depicted as being perfectly fine when facing mister X.

again, is there any evidence ogun possessed that huge guy? not that it matters but still.

for the thousand time, if you believe wolverine was taxed during his fight with mister X please present the evidence. there was no such statement. if that was indeed the situation, it would probably be stated as wolverines thoughts. something like "damn all that rumble taxed my healing factor(which would be laughable to say the least)". however wolverine was making fun of the bodyguard before that and depicted as perfectly fine.

Just because he's drawn without injury, doesn't mean his healing factor has recovered. Remember the Morrison scene? He didn't appear to be damaged at all, but he still needed to meditate for days to speed his healing factors recovery.

This isn't about how fast he heals, it's about how long his hf takes to recover. It not being able to do so in just a few hours is actually pretty consistent.

It was a single panel near the end of the story, a setup that was paid off in Bloodsport.

Why would he need to state anything, when he'd just written nearly two issues showing how much damage Wolverine had taken? And if the crazy amount of damage he took there bringing down his healing factor is "laughable," how much more laughable is X doing it on his own?

Originally posted by Ize19
Just because he's drawn without injury, doesn't mean his healing factor has recovered. Remember the Morrison scene? He didn't appear to be damaged at all, but he still needed to meditate for days to speed his healing factors recovery.

This isn't about how fast he heals, it's about how long his hf takes to recover. It not being able to do so in just a few hours is actually pretty consistent.

It was a single panel near the end of the story, a setup that was paid off in Bloodsport.

Why would he need to state anything, when he'd just written nearly two issues showing how much damage Wolverine had taken? And if the crazy amount of damage he took there bringing down his healing factor is "laughable," how much more laughable is X doing it on his own?

you are going in cicrles. lets conclude this. you have no evidence wolverine was hurt and you have no evidence his healing factor was taxed.

Me: i have the comics itself on my side not only showing him being fine but also cracking jokes and laughing when he breaks thru the glass cieling on top of that huge bodyguard. yeah... he was so hurt and his healing factor was so taxed out that he was just laughing and joking all around.

also, what is the damage he took? some gun shots? a fire and some stubs which did nothing to him? yeahhh its such an extreme punishment for wolverine. come on... this is just laughable.

i think its very clear that he was just fine when he faced X. so how did X ko him then? as we see in the comics itself by beating him H2H. by the way, if you look at the debate, i used the mister X example as a stretch to the other side if people will bring him survivng nukes hulks and all those stuff. which means i dont believe its his normal. however, even that has an explanation in the form of precise nerve strikes and concentrated hits to the right ereas. the same way cap was able to use his hands to use pressure points on wolverine and dissable his wrists or something like that via tendon damage. you could think if cap did it, explosions should be able as well right? wrong. those are different forces working differently. a good placed hit to specific points in the nerve system cause different things. ask gamora she will tell you. ask daredevil he will tell you. or just read the comics itself, it will show you

You are completely ignoring how Wolverine's healing factor works.

The comic showed him taking a tremendous amount of damage, and Wolverine doesn't save his jokes for when he's 100% fine, he's been gravely injured so often, he quips in any condition.

Enough damage that the soldier reporting on the private army's failure said he was unstoppable, then listed all the wounds they had inflicted, which were quite extensive, and far beyond the damage Mr X can inflict.

There's a reason Wolverine was poisoned before he fought Shingen, and why he was kept in a state of exhaustion before he fought Cap in Origins, because when his healing factor is at full capacity, he heals too quickly from pressure points for them to bring him down. This has been shown against Echo and Elektra, he can be hurt by pp, but they only make him angry.

And all of this is ignoring that Wolverine can use pressure points too, will hit harder than Cap will due to his adamantium bonded fists, and is absolutely in Cap's league as a fighter, if not better when he's at his best. Even lowballing Wolverine, he's still capable of taking much more punishment than Captain America, as well as dishing out just as much damage. That equation equals victory for Wolverine in this fight.

Pretty much. His healing factor being taxed doesn't mean he will sit there weezing and vomiting or anything. It just means subsequent damage will actually last, and he won't recover from new injuries well. Physically, he'll look normal though.

Even if we allow the X showing, it's just one. We can't really act like that negates his typical ability to brush off that kind of damage.

If his healing factor really run on infinite energy and never needed to recharge, we wouldn't be seeing scenes like Logan emptying the refrigerator of all food or/and sometimes even needing more sleep than his fellow X-Men.