Originally posted by psycho gundamI disagree. Enormous is an opinion.
None of it matters that much is what you don't care to realize. The gulf in power is enormous
What matters was the damage WWH sustained in those hits by Hercules.
It was enough to believe that anywhere from 100-1000 more of those will put him down.
Hercules with this level of speed can easily get those amount of hits in.
Plus it can be argued that the extra speed increases the force of Hercules punches.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
Green scar is the easiest persona to define cause it stretches from Planet Hulk to the climax of Heart of the monster only being interrupted in between when his power is drained from the Cathexis ray and Red Hulk. The only thing that didn't happen in "WWH" that did happen after is that he got to unleash his power that you only saw glimpse of in WWH, so it's actually required to be thorough and use the whole thing rather than just a snippet that purposefully removes context.Anyway, this argument is going away from Hercules' feats as usual cause there aren't any of note.
Sentry in wwh#5 was a whole level above what Juggernaut was dishing out and it's pretty obvious, you don't even need to go by the narrative raising the stakes as the issues went on.
If anyone wants we can have a battlezone between Skaar (whom Hulk easily defeated) and Juggernaut, but just so you know this is how their fight ended:
The off-brand version more than enough...
you seem to be all over the map in this thread. so you think the hulk that fought sentry was somehow....more than a 1000x stronger than he's been typically depicted? 1000x stronger than when he fought juggs a couple issues prior?? really?? that....seems asinine to me. i'm not even convinced he was ANY stronger than when he fought juggs. is sentry's strength dynamic now too? cuz it would seem to need to be since you seem to want to say hulk kept getting stronger. to me its the same as when he fights thor. he never dwarfs thor in strength no matter how long the fight lasts. he sure as sh!t has never dwarfed hercules. as far as the argument getting away--it was never about herc's feats. he has plenty to suggest he could have made a hella fight of it by himself if he really chose to, and banner seemed to agree. of most relevance though is probably the fact that hulk himself has never beaten herc. ever (mortal form aside). even in the wwh arc one decent shot dropped hulk like a bag of wet cement.
and i'd be less concerned about herc's feats than i would pietro's anyways. dude has dropped ironman with just his regular strength, and made mister x a total statue and he can PREDICT moves. he can hit 1000x in a second and he's gone so far as to say he's not even a good fighter! lol herc is a very good h2h fighter and a 1000 punches from herc would end this thing pretty quick, given how quickly hulk was dropped from just a single shot. he would hit with that first shot then follow it up with 1000 in the next second and if hulk was still conscious (which would be....fairly impossible to imagine) in the next second he would hit him a 1000 more times. if you seriously think hulk would....shrug off 1000s of hits from someone like hercules, wellllll.....we really don't have anything left to discuss. /shrug
i mean, seriously. i was thinking about this a little more. am i the crazy one here? we're talking about possibly 1000 shots from hercules. like i said, we saw what he did to wwh with just 1 decent shot:
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111270457/5546182-0169919045-incre.jpg
and he didn't even WANT to fight there! and this is a future herc (616 herc still as he constantly references his actions from this era throughout), but still, just another example of what a po'd herc can do:
he laid ZEUS out. that was just after he thought zeus killed his best friend, but his mindset in a forum match would be similar. a TRULY berserk herc almost killed wonderman with little more than a single shot. something hulk has never come close to doing....
but i'm somehow supposed to believe hulk could take a THOUSAND hits from him and what? just keep on going?? even if it was just, say 500. honestly? someone want to tell me how in the HELL i'm not supposed to find that to be one of the craziest things i've heard in the forum in...well, a LONG time...? quicksilver has some really good feats on his own, and his strength is rarely said to be peak human, and he has no real skill to speak of. man, i don't see how this is even close in any way shape or form....
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Not talking about the WW Hulk arc in particular. He has nice speed feats before and after where he isn't as powerful.No reason to deny him said feats. Mark Waid gave Hulk lots of love on the speed front.
reasons a plenty. primarily, the thread is specific to the wwh arc as has been stated several times already. beyond that, hulk did get a little speed love. but not even close to what pietro does on a regular basis. nowhere close.
and it also seems like people think all hulk has to do is tag herc once or something and the fight is....done? herc could take...a LOT of damage, is capable, as shown in the arc, of blocking shots from hulk and for each one he DOES take he'd land 500 or more. not to mention the increase his own sped healing would also receive in this form.
again, not sure how the stance that hulk wins this can be taken with any amount of seriousness. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
[B]reasons a plenty. primarily, the thread is specific to the wwh arc as has been stated several times already.
What are these reasons a plenty? When you mention only one reason which I already questioned? Kinda circular.
Why does Hulk not get access to all of his un-amped feats that he did while weaker but Hercules presumably gets everything he ever did on top of a speed boost? Of course Herc would win that.
Herc has strength feats that are well above WW Hulk's eastern seaboard Earthquake steps afterall.
Unless the OP specifically said Hulk is for some reason limited to only his WW Hulk showings, I won't assume that.
beyond that, hulk did get a little speed love. but not even close to what pietro does on a regular basis. nowhere close.
Nah. Hulk has a rather casual speed feat where he shook a test tube thousands of times faster than a centrifuge could.
Under Waid, Hulk also speed blitzed three opponents who were already super humanly fast themselves. They were so fast that they could shoot revolvers so rapidly that they were compared to gatlin guns in rate of fire. They were too fast to see for normal eyes. But Hulk was too fast for them to see.
That's definitely worthy of inclusion in a QS respect thread.
Proof? Sounds like a bunch of circular ass-pull.
What makes "Waid's Hulk" a specifically faster version of Hulk? What specific reason is given?
There's no need for shitty fan theories to create convoluted explanations. It's the same character and unless specified that he had a speed boost or that his gamma powers were somehow re-organized to fill out his power chart differently or some shit, the feats apply.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
What are these reasons a plenty? When you mention only one reason which I already questioned? Kinda circular.Why does Hulk not get access to all of his un-amped feats that he did while weaker but Hercules presumably gets everything he ever did on top of a speed boost? Of course Herc would win that.
Herc has strength feats that are well above WW Hulk's eastern seaboard Earthquake steps afterall.
Unless the OP specifically said Hulk is for some reason limited to only his WW Hulk showings, I won't assume that.
Nah. Hulk has a rather casual speed feat where he shook a test tube thousands of times faster than a centrifuge could.
Under Waid, Hulk also speed blitzed three opponents who were already super humanly fast themselves. They were so fast that they could shoot revolvers so rapidly that they were compared to gatlin guns in rate of fire. They were too fast to see for normal eyes. But Hulk was too fast for them to see.
That's definitely worthy of inclusion in a QS respect thread.
reason 1 as i said--we are to stick to the wwh arc. reason 2 one test tube feat is hardly enough to lay claim to the fact that hulk is as fast as pietro. seriously? thor dug a trench at super human blur speed, so do i conclude he's as fast as qs too? sorry man, that conclusion, based on the overwhelming support the other way, is beyond ridiculous. reason 3 the waid feat came after wwh arc and even THAT feat is nothing compared to what qs has done in the past in terms of combat feats and complex manipulation feats, and by extension reason 4 would be the clear and obvious lack of overall evidence to support anything like the conclusion that hulk is as fast, or nearly as fast, as qs. we don't cherry pick specific feats here, we look at the average. on average, in his career, hulk is....not even close to qs. certainly not historically, most certainly not in the wwh arc and while currently he has been depicted as being faster than he was at times, there is still nowhere near enough evidence to support the fact that hulk is now a....speedster.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
What are these reasons a plenty? When you mention only one reason which I already questioned? Kinda circular.Why does Hulk not get access to all of his un-amped feats that he did while weaker but Hercules presumably gets everything he ever did on top of a speed boost? Of course Herc would win that.
Herc has strength feats that are well above WW Hulk's eastern seaboard Earthquake steps afterall.
Unless the OP specifically said Hulk is for some reason limited to only his WW Hulk showings, I won't assume that.
Nah. Hulk has a rather casual speed feat where he shook a test tube thousands of times faster than a centrifuge could.
Under Waid, Hulk also speed blitzed three opponents who were already super humanly fast themselves. They were so fast that they could shoot revolvers so rapidly that they were compared to gatlin guns in rate of fire. They were too fast to see for normal eyes. But Hulk was too fast for them to see.
That's definitely worthy of inclusion in a QS respect thread.
1. That's an outlier of the highest kind. Are you of the opinion that we use a one off outlier feat as the representative of a forum character? If yes, then i'll accept it and argue as is.
2. The feat came after WWH (not before). Thus it is logical that Hulk gained speed afterward.
3. The OP stated earlier that we are limited to only WWH arc.
4. Hulk didn't have to move much faster than them to perform the feat. If they were human speed then Hulk could have done the same thing using human level speed.
5. A bullet is faster than a human can see (and several speeds slower than a bullet are too).
So if Hulk was the speed of a bullet then QS is still thousands of times faster.
6. They were slower than bullets (but still fast enough to be blurs).
