Hi, I would like to tell you about Jesus Christ, the only way to God

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Scientific reliability is proven to work over blind faith in the unexplainable invisible all powerful yet completely hands off creator God.

You attempt to justify God's inaction and previous action with rhetorical nonsense that no sane person commits to. You say that God is all powerful and does not punish for prior sin, yet the stain of Adam's original sin makes his children suffer needlessly, even though he is fully capable of alleviating the innocent of that sin's unjustifiable effect. He is almighty, he has the power, yet refuses to act, even though the reasoning for his non-interferance is proven false innumerable times throughout the bible, including breaking his own rule when he not only allowed, but encouraged the wholesale slaughter of the Egyptians. A sin for a sin is still wrong, even for God.

This here is a historical fact - Religion was originally developed as an institutionalized control mechanism. It was developed by ancient governing bodies as a means to make the bright eyed superstitious masses of the time behave. "Do as you are expected and told by the faith or go to a horrible afterlife after we cut off your head". Every religion shares this exact formula.

You attempt to justify God's inaction and previous action with rhetorical nonsense that no sane person commits to.

I don't know "what" you're talking about.

God doesn’t need me to justify Him for “several” reasons”.

You see, God is “always”,

1. Truth—Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 31:5, Isaiah 65:16
2. Holy—Psalm 92:15, 99:9; Hebrews 12:10; Leviticus 19:2
3. Just—Deuteronomy 32:4; Revelation 15:3
4. Faithful—Deuteronomy 7:9; 1 Corinthians 10:13; 2 Corinthians 1:18; 1 Peter 4:19
5. Good—Psalm 25:8, 143:10; Matthew 19:17; Psalm 92:15; Romans 2:4
6. Merciful—Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 145:8; Luke 6:36, Ephesians 2:4
7. Long-Suffering—Exodus 34:6; Numbers 14:18; 2 Peter 3:9; Psalm 86:15
8. Loving-Kind—Psalm 36:7, 69:16; Jeremiah 9:24; Luke 6:35-36
9. Compassionate—Psalm 86:15, 111:4, 112:4, 145:8; Matthew 20:34
10. Gracious—Exodus 34:6; Psalm 86:15, 145:8; Joel 2:13
11. Love—1 John 4:8, 16
12. Light—1 John 1:5; 1 Timothy 6:16; James 1:17
13. Life—Genesis 2:7; John 5:26, 14:6; 1 John 5:11-12
14. Judge—Psalm 50:6, 75:7; Hebrews 12:23; 2 Timothy 4:8; 1 Peter 2:23
15. Father—Psalm 68:5; John 20:17
16. King—Psalm 5:3, 10:16, 29:10, 47:7, 95:3; Malachi 1:14; Revelation 17:14, 19:16
17. Great King—Malachi 1:14
18. Unchanging/Constant—Malachi 3:6; James 1:17; Hebrews 6:17-18
19. Eternal—Deuteronomy 33:27; Romans 16:26
20. Omnipotent—Jeremiah 32:17, 27; 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 4:8, 19:6
21. Omniscient—Psalm 94:11, 147:5; Proverbs 15:3, 2 Corinthians 11:11;
a. 1 John 3:20
22. Omnipresent—Psalm 139:7-12; Jeremiah 23:24
23. Peace—Isaiah 9:6; John 14:27, 16:33; Romans 15:33, 16:20;
a. 1 Corinthians 14:33; Philippians 4:7, 9; Colossians 3:15; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 3:16; Hebrews 13:20
24. Righteous—Psalm 25:8, 92:15, 145:17; Daniel 9:14; Hebrews 6:10; Deuteronomy 32:4
25. Mighty and Awesome—Deuteronomy 7:21; Psalm 50:1
26. From Everlasting To Everlasting—Psalm 90:2
27. Most Upright—Isaiah 26:7
28. A God of Patience And Comfort—Romans 15:5
29. Hope—Romans 15:13
30. Peace—Romans 15:33, 16:20; 2 Corinthians 13:11; Philippians 4:9
31. Love—2 Corinthians 13:11
32. High and lifted up—Isaiah 6:1
33. Wonderful—Isaiah 9:6
34. Counsellor—Isaiah 9:6
35. The Mighty God—Isaiah 9:6
36. The Everlasting Father—Isaiah 9:6
37. The Prince of Peace—Isaiah 9:6
38. There Is None Like (Thee) You Or None Beside Thee (You)—Exodus 9:14; 2 Samuel 7:22
39. Rich in mercy—Ephesians 2:4

You say that God is all powerful and does not punish for prior sin, yet the stain of Adam's original sin makes his children suffer needlessly….

I never said that God “doesn't” punish for “prior” sin—“you” said that.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Suffer “needlessly”?

You know,

I suffer “needlessly” every time I reply to dumb comments.

But I really suffer “needlessly” when I run out of ice cream.

Did you know that I suffer “needlessly” when I have to keep filling up my gas tank too? (It’s so needlessly needful).

I’m starting to think that all of this “needless” suffering is needlessly overrated.

What about you?

Do you agree with me?

Let’s start a campaign to rid the world (no wait…just “my” life) from all this “needless” suffering.

Whataya say?

But here’s something to consider,

You cannot have an “A+ testimony” "without suffering on a test”.

You cannot have a “valiant war story” without “fighting valiantly in war”.

You cannot “win a race” without “suffering through a race”.

…even though he is fully capable of alleviating the innocent of that sin's unjustifiable effect. He is almighty, he has the power, yet refuses to act, even though the reasoning for his non-interferance is proven false innumerable times throughout the bible, including breaking his own rule when he not only allowed, but encouraged the wholesale slaughter of the Egyptians. A sin for a sin is still wrong, even for God.

I didn’t know that you were such a “God” apologist.

You sitting there on the other side of Cybertropia “expounding” on God’s abilities like you “know” Him personally. (Do you? You know…know Him personally?)

I mean you’re like the Albert Einstein of God-theoretical-physics; developing your own “special relativity” about how God “works”. Your own G=yke2 (i.e. God=”you” know everything).

Since you know God so well,

How long has He existed?

How many angels did He create?

Why do the Fundamental Forces exist, and where did they come from?

How can God be Love, Truth, and Light? Aren’t these “abstract” concepts?

Why is God called the First and Last, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End?

How big did God make the universe?

Where “exactly” is Heaven, the one God lives in?

Bonus question since you’re being such a good sport: Where did God get the “cool” idea for DNA?

And did He “patent” it?

If not, “it’s on like Donkey Kong”.

I appreciate you so much taking time out of your busy day to answer these simple questions.

Thanks Dee Zizzle (i.e. Darkstorm Zero)

This here is a historical fact - Religion was originally developed as an institutionalized control mechanism.

*Gasp*

Say it ain’t so.

Is that why people say I dress like C3PO—but look, walk, talk, and act like R2-D2?

I’m just a “robot” of the chuuch?

Paradigm shift.

It was developed by ancient governing bodies as a means to make the bright eyed superstitious masses of the time behave.

Say it ain’t so *Jim Carrey voice*

What I’m gone do nah?

A whutta I’m gonna dew?

Eyez gez eyez best be behaving den sense Imma supastitshus mass of primowdial Chef Boyardee out da can—and on da flow (i.e. floor).

"Do as you are expected and told by the faith or go to a horrible afterlife after we cut off your head". Every religion shares this exact formula.

But I like my head.

So whooz a gonna be dewin da kuttin?

.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
I don't know "what" you're talking about.

God doesn’t need me to justify Him for “several” reasons”.

You see, God is “always”,

1. Truth—Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 31:5, Isaiah 65:16
2. Holy—Psalm 92:15, 99:9; Hebrews 12:10; Leviticus 19:2
3. Just—Deuteronomy 32:4; Revelation 15:3
4. Faithful—Deuteronomy 7:9; 1 Corinthians 10:13; 2 Corinthians 1:18; 1 Peter 4:19
5. Good—Psalm 25:8, 143:10; Matthew 19:17; Psalm 92:15; Romans 2:4
6. Merciful—Deuteronomy 4:31; Psalm 145:8; Luke 6:36, Ephesians 2:4
7. Long-Suffering—Exodus 34:6; Numbers 14:18; 2 Peter 3:9; Psalm 86:15
8. Loving-Kind—Psalm 36:7, 69:16; Jeremiah 9:24; Luke 6:35-36
9. Compassionate—Psalm 86:15, 111:4, 112:4, 145:8; Matthew 20:34
10. Gracious—Exodus 34:6; Psalm 86:15, 145:8; Joel 2:13
11. Love—1 John 4:8, 16
12. Light—1 John 1:5; 1 Timothy 6:16; James 1:17
13. Life—Genesis 2:7; John 5:26, 14:6; 1 John 5:11-12
14. Judge—Psalm 50:6, 75:7; Hebrews 12:23; 2 Timothy 4:8; 1 Peter 2:23
15. Father—Psalm 68:5; John 20:17
16. King—Psalm 5:3, 10:16, 29:10, 47:7, 95:3; Malachi 1:14; Revelation 17:14, 19:16
17. Great King—Malachi 1:14
18. Unchanging/Constant—Malachi 3:6; James 1:17; Hebrews 6:17-18
19. Eternal—Deuteronomy 33:27; Romans 16:26
20. Omnipotent—Jeremiah 32:17, 27; 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 4:8, 19:6
21. Omniscient—Psalm 94:11, 147:5; Proverbs 15:3, 2 Corinthians 11:11;
a. 1 John 3:20
22. Omnipresent—Psalm 139:7-12; Jeremiah 23:24
23. Peace—Isaiah 9:6; John 14:27, 16:33; Romans 15:33, 16:20;
a. 1 Corinthians 14:33; Philippians 4:7, 9; Colossians 3:15; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 3:16; Hebrews 13:20
24. Righteous—Psalm 25:8, 92:15, 145:17; Daniel 9:14; Hebrews 6:10; Deuteronomy 32:4
25. Mighty and Awesome—Deuteronomy 7:21; Psalm 50:1
26. From Everlasting To Everlasting—Psalm 90:2
27. Most Upright—Isaiah 26:7
28. A God of Patience And Comfort—Romans 15:5
29. Hope—Romans 15:13
30. Peace—Romans 15:33, 16:20; 2 Corinthians 13:11; Philippians 4:9
31. Love—2 Corinthians 13:11
32. High and lifted up—Isaiah 6:1
33. Wonderful—Isaiah 9:6
34. Counsellor—Isaiah 9:6
35. The Mighty God—Isaiah 9:6
36. The Everlasting Father—Isaiah 9:6
37. The Prince of Peace—Isaiah 9:6
38. There Is None Like (Thee) You Or None Beside Thee (You)—Exodus 9:14; 2 Samuel 7:22
39. Rich in mercy—Ephesians 2:4

Yes, you do. Because you are here, replying to a thread entitled "Hi. I would like to tell you about Jesus Christ, the only way to God." You are perfectly aware that you are attempting to speak for him. Again, doublespeak doesn't work.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
I never said that God “doesn't” punish for “prior” sin—“you” said that. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Suffer “needlessly”? You know, I suffer “needlessly” every time I reply to dumb comments. But I really suffer “needlessly” when I run out of ice cream. Did you know that I suffer “needlessly” when I have to keep filling up my gas tank too? (It’s so needlessly needful).

I’m starting to think that all of this “needless” suffering is needlessly overrated.

What about you? Do you agree with me?

Let’s start a campaign to rid the world (no wait…just “my” life) from all this “needless” suffering. Whataya say?

But here’s something to consider, You cannot have an “A+ testimony” "without suffering on a test”. You cannot have a “valiant war story” without “fighting valiantly in war”. You cannot “win a race” without “suffering through a race”.

Dear God, your ardent follower formats his posts like an epilepsy sufferer and does not know how to paragraph. In fact I had to correct it just to make it legible.

YouTube video

Now, to answer your ""points" - Your every argument against Artificial Glowy and Surter in the prior five pages is precisely that people suffer because of the stain of Adam's sin. This one aspect, so early in the bible, proves the hypocritical stance of such blind faith. God knew of the ignorance and gullibility of humans - as he intended us to remain that way, he knew of the Devil's manipulation, and he knew, without fail that this supposed stain would make future generations of the children of Adam and Eve suffer during his test. Thus he knowingly allows it to continue - He punishes the innocent for the sins of the guilty, because allowing suffering to continue even though he has the absolute power to alleviate it, he deliberately chooses not to.

I question any supposed benevolent omnipotent being that allows that to continue without so much as a real reason as to why. Adam's choice was not my choice, so that is a bullshit excuse. I should not have to suffer for a choice I had no part in making.

The rest of your diatribe is pure drivel on this point about you harping on and on about needless sufferings which are completely trivial compared to the threat of death for no reason other than "because some ancient ancestor did do a naughty."

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
*SNIP*

Wow, a complete non answer, and then a degeneration into deflection mode with wild ad hominem and false equivelancy for good measure.

So this is how the bible thumpers react when confronted with questions they are ill prepared to answer. They try, and when the rhetoric fails, they start throwing their toys out of the crib.

Also, even though I have no idea what accent you are trying to imitate, I'd say your bigotry and racism is showing for trying to play another race as silly and stupid.

Way to prove the religious hypocritical stance dude. 👆

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You attempt to justify God's inaction and previous action with rhetorical nonsense that no sane person commits to. You say that God is all powerful and does not punish for prior sin, yet the stain of Adam's original sin makes his children suffer needlessly, even though he is fully capable of alleviating the innocent of that sin's unjustifiable effect. He is almighty, he has the power, yet refuses to act, even though the reasoning for his non-interferance is proven false innumerable times throughout the bible, including breaking his own rule when he not only allowed, but encouraged the wholesale slaughter of the Egyptians. A sin for a sin is still wrong, even for God.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes, you do. Because you are here, replying to a thread entitled "Hi. I would like to tell you about Jesus Christ, the only way to God." You are perfectly aware that you are attempting to speak for him. Again, doublespeak doesn't work.

Dear God, your ardent follower formats his posts like an epilepsy sufferer and does not know how to paragraph. In fact I had to correct it just to make it legible.

YouTube video

Now, to answer your ""points" - Your every argument against Artificial Glowy and Surter in the prior five pages is [b]precisely that people suffer because of the stain of Adam's sin. This one aspect, so early in the bible, proves the hypocritical stance of such blind faith. God knew of the ignorance and gullibility of humans - as he intended us to remain that way, he knew of the Devil's manipulation, and he knew, without fail that this supposed stain would make future generations of the children of Adam and Eve suffer during his test. Thus he knowingly allows it to continue - He punishes the innocent for the sins of the guilty, because allowing suffering to continue even though he has the absolute power to alleviate it, he deliberately chooses not to.

I question any supposed benevolent omnipotent being that allows that to continue without so much as a real reason as to why. Adam's choice was not my choice, so that is a bullshit excuse. I should not have to suffer for a choice I had no part in making.

The rest of your diatribe is pure drivel on this point about you harping on and on about needless sufferings which are completely trivial compared to the threat of death for no reason other than "because some ancient ancestor did do a naughty."

Wow, a complete non answer, and then a degeneration into deflection mode with wild ad hominem and false equivelancy for good measure.

So this is how the bible thumpers react when confronted with questions they are ill prepared to answer. They try, and when the rhetoric fails, they start throwing their toys out of the crib.

Also, even though I have no idea what accent you are trying to imitate, I'd say your bigotry and racism is showing for trying to play another race as silly and stupid.

Way to prove the religious hypocritical stance dude. 👆 [/B]

I knew that you would not understand if I tried to break everything down for you.

Others get it, but you don't.

Don't fault me for not throwing my hat into "your" ring.

Hey, you didn't answer "any" of my God questions. (Sup with that?)

You've been stripped of your God apologist, Albert Einstein title--for now.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
I knew that you would not understand if I tried to break everything down for you. Others get it, but not you.

And now you act pretentious and of somehow higher understanding, even though you explained absolutely nothing. Quaint, but wrong.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
Don't fault me for not throwing my hat into "your" ring.

I never drew battle lines in the sand. YOU did that when you challenged a joke, and then questioned my knowledge about who is really behind horror movies. You do not keep track of your own rhetoric do you?

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
Hey, you didn't answer "any" of my God questions. (Sup with that?)

You've been stripped of your God apologist, Albert Einstein title--for now.

I never claimed to be a God Apologist in the first place. Nor should I have to answer for a stance I never made. YOU came HERE to tell us about what your faith decrees. Don't be surprised when people find such activities... less than welcome.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
And now you act pretentious and of somehow higher understanding, even though you explained absolutely nothing. Quaint, but wrong.

I never drew battle lines in the sand. YOU did that when you challenged a joke, and then questioned my knowledge about who is really behind horror movies. You do not keep track of your own rhetoric do you?

I never claimed to be a God Apologist in the first place. Nor should I have to answer for a stance I never made. YOU came HERE to tell us about what your faith decrees. Don't be surprised when people find such activities... less than welcome.

You know...*sniffle*...you're absolutely---------------------wrong.

My bad, I thought this was the "Religion Fowum".

Maybe I should just keep all my preaching to ma-self.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
You know...*sniffle*...you're absolutely---------------------wrong.

Wow, explanation not forthcoming. Excellent. I love how you illuminate my ignorance with your vast amounts of knowledge of hot air.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
My bad, I thought this was the "religion fowum".

It's a forum IE: we discuss religion, IE: we discuss it's merits and it's faults. We arn't here to be preached to and have sermons and prayers. There is a place for that kind of thing. For Catholics and Christians it is called Church.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
Maybe I should just keep all my preaching to maself.

Maybe you should. Maybe you should go to the place made for that kind of thing and do it there?

I'm not saying don't have your faith. I'm not saying don't talk about it. All I'm saying is that there are times and places for that, and on a discussion forum where people are clearly not looking for faith is not such a place.

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I used to be Catholic, before I woke up to the inconsistencies of scriptures. But that is my path. Others here have gained, lost, or never had religious faiths for various different reasons. And for many, those things are more a source of tension and frustration more than they help.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wow, explanation not forthcoming. Excellent. I love how you illuminate my ignorance with your vast amounts of knowledge of hot air.

It's a forum IE: we discuss religion, IE: we discuss it's merits and it's faults. We arn't here to be preached to and have sermons and prayers. There is a place for that kind of thing. For Catholics and Christians it is called Church.

Maybe you should. Maybe you should go to the place made for that kind of thing and do it there?

I'm not saying don't have your faith. I'm not saying don't talk about it. All I'm saying is that there are times and places for that, and on a discussion forum where people are clearly not looking for faith is not such a place.

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I used to be Catholic, before I woke up to the inconsistencies of scriptures. But that is my path. Others here have gained, lost, or never had religious faiths for various different reasons. And for many, those things are more a source of tension and frustration more than they help.

Your back!

The God apologist, Albert Einstein guy is back!

So erudite and scholarly you are.

You really must stop "needlessly" holding back on your God apology talent.

I mean...you...you...you could be the next...big--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------you.

With such articulate, churchified diction, and elocution.

You see, there's a preacher inside you Hoss, and Imma gonna bring hem out.

Ugh.....

Nope... I'm way too tired and ill to deal with this...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ugh.....

Nope... I'm way too tired and ill to deal with this...

I would pray for your healing, but you said this forum is not a place for that so, take it easy.

Your example about president Truman dropping nukes on Japan is a flawed one:

1) It was a horrible necessity of war, not a punishment.
2) It was done by flawed human beings. Unlike the Adam and Eve debacle, God wasn't involved. The people of the United States didn't have a realistic way to stop it(the vast majority didn't even know about the existence of nuclear weapons) nor did they have a particularly good reason to do so.
3) Even though it was done by flawed humans, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was still more just. It was limited to only two cities, instead of the entirety of humanity and the lingering effects of radiation were limited to only 2 or 3 generations, instead of hundreds of generations over thousands of years. So it would seem that mere humans did a better job than God when it came to being fair.
4) Now let's look at the severity of the crimes committed by Japan and Adam. Japan waged a war of aggression while Adam was merely curious. Which is worse: waging a war of aggression or curiosity(a faculty which God himself granted to humans) and desire for knowledge?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Your example about president Truman dropping nukes on Japan is a flawed one:

1) It was a horrible necessity of war, not a punishment.
2) It was done by flawed human beings. Unlike the Adam and Eve debacle, God wasn't involved. The people of the United States didn't have a realistic way to stop it(the vast majority didn't even know about the existence of nuclear weapons) nor did they have a particularly good reason to do so.
3) Even though it was done by flawed humans, the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was still more just. It was limited to only two cities, instead of the entirety of humanity and the lingering effects of radiation were limited to only 2 or 3 generations, instead of hundreds of generations over thousands of years. So it would seem that mere humans did a better job than God when it came to being fair.
4) Now let's look at the severity of the crimes committed by Japan and Adam. Japan waged a war of aggression while Adam was merely curious. Which is worse: waging a war of aggression or curiosity(a faculty which God himself granted to humans) and desire for knowledge?

Did innocent children suffer and die though?

Then there's no difference.

I rest my case.

This must be said though, what you're saying about the dropping of nuclear weapons on innocent children is very disturbing because you are trying to "trivialize", "mitigate", and "justify" it.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
Did [b]innocent children suffer and die though?

Then there's no difference.

I rest my case.

This must be said though, what you're saying about the dropping of nuclear weapons on innocent children is very disturbing because you are trying to "trivialize", "mitigate", and "justify" it. [/B]

No difference? Are you saying there's no difference between God and humans?

I'm doing no such thing. Though it is relatively trivial compared to what God allowed to happen.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yes.

No difference? Are you saying there's no difference between God and humans?

I'm doing no such thing. Though it is relatively trivial compared to what God allowed to happen.

What did God do?

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
What did God do?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Stood by and allowed billions to suffer across millennia because of the actions of one man. Actions that weren't even ill-intentioned.

Sounds just like what the United States did with President Harry S. Truman nuking innocent children.

They could have been anyone's little brothers and sisters. And "you" tried to "justify" his heinous actions.

Shame on you.

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
Sounds just like what the United States did with President Harry S. Truman nuking [b]innocent children [/B]

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
There's a big difference because the nuking of Japan was a necessity of war that prevented even greater suffering and loss of life down the line. What would have happened if God had either prevented or simply limited the consequences of Adam's sin to only Adam, which was definitely within God's divine power? Humans would live blissful lives free of sin, suffering, and death. How terrible!

Why are trying to "justify" nuking innocent children?

All that talk from about "innocents", and it turns out that you "don't" even "mean" it.

You still have not answered my "original" question.

Have "you" ever sinned?

Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
Why are trying to "justify" [b]nuking innocent children?

All that talk from about "innocents", and it turns out that you "don't" even "mean" it.

You still have not answered my "original" question.

Have "you" ever sinned? [/B]

If I have sinned, then my sins pale in comparison to God's sins.