Originally posted by Surtur
JesusLovesYou, why is your God so horrible though? Does having super powers give one a pass to be an abomination?Make no mistake: he's omnipotent. People die only because he wills it, not because there are no other options. You get that, correct?
What makes you say this?
You see, God is Love.
Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
Why would God be at fault for "your" sins?
See, this is a different question altogether. The United States of America doesn't purport to have created me. If God, on the other hand, intentionally builds a faulty machine, then it's obviously on him when it doesn't work correctly.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
See, this is a different question altogether. The United States of America doesn't purport to have created me. If God, on the other hand, intentionally builds a faulty machine, then it's obviously on him when it doesn't work correctly.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
See, this is a different question altogether. The United States of America doesn't purport to have created me. If God, on the other hand, intentionally builds a faulty machine, then it's obviously on him when it doesn't work correctly.
Do you not understand what an analogy is?
Look it up.
It's not meant to "exactly" represent something else in an illustration, but to be a "word picture" to help you grasp what I'm really talking about.
Besides, God never made anything faulty.
What God does is create beings with a "free will", but to do so involves risk because the being can "choose" to "not" love God, and rebel.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yeah, the guy just doesn't get the difference between God, a supposedly omnipotent being and the creator of everything(and I mean EVERYTHING), and a country.
I do get it.
Here's what I wrote to NewGuy01 on this same issue,
Originally posted by NewGuy01
See, this is a different question altogether. The United States of America doesn't purport to have created me. If God, on the other hand, intentionally builds a faulty machine, then it's obviously on him when it doesn't work correctly.
Do you not understand what an analogy is?
Look it up.
It's not meant to "exactly" represent something else in an illustration, but to be a "word picture" to help you grasp what I'm really talking about.
Besides, God never made anything faulty.
What God does is create beings with a "free will", but to do so involves risk because the being can "choose" to "not" love God, and rebel.
Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
What makes you say this?You see, God is Love.
God sure does love floods, essentially nuking cities, and even allowing Satan to f*ck up the life of a devout follower(Job), murder some of Job's children, etc. God admits Job did nothing to deserve this. It's merely a test to find out if Job truly loves God or if he just loves God because he has a good life. At least after it's over God resurrects Job's children. Oh wait whoops no he doesn't, but it's okay Job was able to have more kids. No harm no foul.
After this ordeal Job still ends up worshiping God. So essentially Job is the first documented case of Stockholm Syndrome. What else do you call it when you continue to worship someone who allowed Satan to kill your family just to prove a point? Even though Satan does all this horrible shit to Job...God somehow STILL comes off looking far worse.
Originally posted by Surtur
God sure does love floods, essentially nuking cities, and even allowing Satan to f*ck up the life of a devout follower(Job), murder some of Job's children, etc. God admits Job did nothing to deserve this. It's merely a test to find out if Job truly loves God or if he just loves God because he has a good life. At least after it's over God resurrects Job's children. Oh wait whoops no he doesn't, but it's okay Job was able to have more kids. No harm no foul.After this ordeal Job still ends up worshiping God. So essentially Job is the first documented case of Stockholm Syndrome. What else do you call it when you continue to worship someone who allowed Satan to kill your family just to prove a point? Even though Satan does all this horrible shit to Job...God somehow STILL comes off looking far worse.
Excuse me sir, there's a moral to the story! Not sure what the moral is exactly... except maybe don't worship the God of Abraham or he'll fuck you up?
Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
What God does is create beings with a "free will", but to do so involves risk because the being can "choose" to "not" love God, and rebel.
In other words, God created us with both the ability and the inclination to perform evil, even though no one benefits from either. What's more, since God knows everything, he knew from the start that Adam and Eve were doomed to fail, but went forward with his creation anyways. Man, what a douche.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
In other words, God created us with both the ability and the inclination to perform evil, even though no one benefits from either. What's more, since God knows everything, he knew from the start that Adam and Eve were doomed to fail, but went forward with his creation anyways. Man, what a douche.
No, God created you with the power to choose.
So what's the problem?
If God had made you a "robot" you'd be whining because you didn't have a free will (if it were possible for a robot without a free will to do that).
As far as inclination, that came after our human representative used his free will to sin (just like "you" do every day). Adam was our titular head, so when he committed high treason, it plunged every person born from his loins into sin and death (spiritually and physically).
Do you have any children?
If so, you "knew" that your children would disobey you, but went forward with your "procreation" anyways. Man, what a you know what.
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Excuse me sir, there's a moral to the story! Not sure what the moral is exactly... except maybe don't worship the God of Abraham or he'll [b]fuck you up? [/B]
Did you notice how JesusLovesYou conveniently ignored the absolutely horrifying story I posted? I'm guessing even he can't spin that. Or he knows the only real excuse would be "well God created us so he has the right to snuff us out whenever he pleases".
I don't see why God didn't just resurrect Lot's kids and give him all his shit back after he proved he didn't love God just because he had a good life.
The lesson is God will allow Satan to murder your children in order to prove a point about how much his followers love him.
Makes you wonder about Jesus being crucified. Did God and Satan make some bet as to how long Jesus could hang on the cross before he died? Then they just lied to Jesus and said "oh...it's...uh, it's to save people! That's why you have to die."
Originally posted by Surtur
Did you notice how JesusLovesYou conveniently ignored the absolutely horrifying story I posted? I'm guessing even he can't spin that. Or he knows the only real excuse would be "well God created us so he has the right to snuff us out whenever he pleases".I don't see why God didn't just resurrect Lot's kids and give him all his shit back after he proved he didn't love God just because he had a good life.
The lesson is God will allow Satan to murder your children in order to prove a point about how much his followers love him.
Makes you wonder about Jesus being crucified. Did God and Satan make some bet as to how long Jesus could hang on the cross before he died? Then they just lied to Jesus and said "oh...it's...uh, it's to save people! That's why you have to die."
I haven't ignored it. I wrote a response to it yesterday. I just haven't posted it yet.
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol yikes, this person s apparently going to actually try to justify God's actions here.
Originally posted by Surtur
God sure does love floods, essentially nuking cities, and even allowing Satan to f*ck up the life of a devout follower(Job), murder some of Job's children, etc. God admits Job did nothing to deserve this. It's merely a test to find out if Job truly loves God or if he just loves God because he has a good life. At least after it's over God resurrects Job's children. Oh wait whoops no he doesn't, but it's okay Job was able to have more kids. No harm no foul.After this ordeal Job still ends up worshiping God. So essentially Job is the first documented case of Stockholm Syndrome. What else do you call it when you continue to worship someone who allowed Satan to kill your family just to prove a point? Even though Satan does all this horrible shit to Job...God somehow STILL comes off looking far worse.
God sure does love floods, essentially nuking cities, and even allowing Satan to f*ck up the life of a devout follower(Job), murder some of Job's children, etc. God admits Job did nothing to deserve this. It's merely a test to find out if Job truly loves God or if he just loves God because he has a good life. At least after it's over God resurrects Job's children. Oh wait whoops no he doesn't, but it's okay Job was able to have more kids. No harm no foul.
Part 1/2
Love floods
No, God doesn’t “love’ floods that’s why He told Noah and his sons,
Genesis 9:8-11
And God spoke unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying…neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
God informed Noah and his sons that He will never again use the waters of a flood to end human life, or destroy Earth (or subject Earth to global judgment/catastrophe with a flood of water).
Do you know why?
Because God “doesn’t” love floods.
Nuking cities
So it’s “okay” for a sinful man (i.e. Harry S. Truman) to nuke a city with innocent children (correction—nuke two cities with innocent children) and every “excuse” in the “world” is given to “justify” his abominable actions.
But don’t let the holy, just, and “good” Creator of the “universe” rain fire and brimstone upon a God-hating/dishonoring, homosexual-lifestyle-practicing city.
Don’t let God (Who is “righteous Judge of all the Earth”) do what a righteous Judge—should do!
Don’t let God judge sinful humanity!
You will find “every reason” to denounce God for judging “sinful” man.
But what kind of God (Who claims to be holy, righteous, and just) would He be if He didn’t judge sin!
What kind of God creates human beings—and doesn’t hold them to His high standard of morality, holiness, and righteousness!
Besides, atheist, you are on the “outside” looking in.
You cannot “possibly” understand God’s “ways”, perhaps only His “acts” (which are “not” the same).
You see God’s “ways” are “why” He does what He does.
But God’s “acts” are simply “what” He does (without explanation).
You cannot “possibly” understand His Word.
Yet, you “dare” to sit as “judge” of God Almighty—when He is “your” Judge—sinner!
Allowing satan
The Bible is clear, that
Proverbs 18:21
Death and life is in the power of the tongue. And those who love it shall it the fruit thereof”.
In addition, the Bible reveals,
Ephesians 4:27
“Neither give place to the devil.”
So, although Job was blameless and upright, one who feared (or “reverenced”) God and shunned evil, he was not entirely free from the devil’s reach. You see, Job gave place to the devil. In other words, Job gave the devil an inroad, or “foothold” in his life, that enabled the devil to oppress, steal, kill, and destroy his family—with his “tongue”. Job “spoke” death to his family, and to his life in general, and operated in “fear”. He opened the door to the devil and invited death and disaster—into his life through his fearful “words”.
Part 2/2
Job said,
Job 3:25
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
The Bible teaches (and it is clear) that you cannot speak “death” to your life by saying things like,
“I’m scared, fearful, or afraid, broke, defeated, depressed, stupid etc.”
Or things like,
“that scares me to death, I’m dying to go, I’m dying to do this, I’m dying to do that, you’re killing me etc.”
Because these kinds of “words” give the devil place, or invite the devil and his angels (or demons) into your life, to see to it that you “stay” this way for the rest of your life, or that these very things (that you “spoke”) come to pass, or happen to you.
People are always “wondering” why this person or that person died, or why this or that happened, or how could God “let” this or that happen—“blaming” God for every bad thing that happens.
But what many do not understand is that God gave man (i.e. humanity) a “free will” to choose “life” or “death”, “blessing” or “cursing”. Hence, it is ”your” decision whether you live or die, are sick or healed, broke or rich, successful or defeated, blessed or cursed, and whether you go to Heaven or Hell—“not God’s”.
We know that the very first man (who was our representative) chose “death” and the “curse”, because through him “sin” entered the world, and “death” (or the “curse”) followed as a consequence of sin.
Life is not a game of Monopoly. I know. But I’m going to use it as an illustration.
It’s like a game of Life or Monopoly. You can choose to play the game “wisely” and buy properties, amass titles, and erect houses and hotels on your properties. Or, you could choose to play the game “unwisely” and “never” buy properties, amass titles, and erect houses and hotels on your properties.
The “choice” is completely yours—not God’s.
God has absolutely no input unless you give it to Him.
But to show you where He stands on the issue God said in His Word,
“…choose life….”
That is God’s will.
He wants you to choose life.
I am fully aware that because of the “curse” and some people’s “wrong choices”, that many babies come into the world with various developmental, mental, psychological, and/or physiological handicaps and disadvantages. But just become things like that happen, that doesn’t “mean” that they are God’s will.
You see, God has a divine (or perfect) will and a permissive will.
God always reveals His divine will (just like He did with Adam in the garden of Eden). God told Adam that He could “freely” eat from “every” tree of the garden except one: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
So God’s “divine will” was for Adam to enjoy fruit from the trees in the garden of Eden. But He “permitted” Adam to eat fruit from the tree that He forbad Him to eat from. God will permit you to disobey Him too. And He has.
In fact, God will even “permit you” to “deny” that “He exists”.
“But I don’t need God’s permission for anything” you might say.
No, you don’t. But that’s because He permits you to have that freedom. And the “only reason” that you have that freedom is because God gave it to you. God “gave” you a “free will” (which is the “power to choose”, good or evil, to obey or to disobey, to live, or to die).
So Job let the devil into his life through his words, and the devil took advantage of it. I know it looks like God and the devil had a conversation about Job (and they did), and God just gave the devil a “cart blanche card” to wreak havoc in Job’s life (He did not). But I already explained “how” the devil was able to do that. Remember, Job’s “tongue” (or “spoken words”) gave “place” to the devil because Job spoke “death” to his life. God had “no control” over what happened to Job from a “legal” standpoint.
From an “all-power” standpoint God had the “power” to end Job’s suffering, He just didn’t have the legal permission to do so without “violating Job’s free will. Job (using the “free will” that God endowed him with) “chose” (by virtue of his “own words”) to eat the “fruit”, so to speak, of what he “loved”. You see, whether you realize it or not, you reveal what you “love” (be it death or life) based on the “words” that you speak. So God had to permit the devil to bring death into Job’s life—because Job (through his “own words” or “tongue”) gave place to the devil.
The bottom line: Job’s calamity was 100% his fault.
Apparently, Job spoke death to his children but not so much to himself or his wife. But I don’t believe that Job “knew” that he was giving place to the devil. He thought everything that was happening to him was caused by God (just like many people today who blame God every time some natural disaster takes lives, or some bad thing happens to someone, even to children).
But the Bible reveals that Job did not sin, accuse God with wrong, or sin with his lips for saying that God was responsible for his situation. What that means is that whatever Job said about God during his ordeal wasn’t held against him by God.
God knew that Job did not know what was going on behind the scenes, in the spirit (or spirit realm). He certainly didn’t know about the conversations that went on between God and the devil, and wasn’t privy to them, so if he misspoke and attributed his plight to God, it wouldn’t be held against him. Job was going solely by the limited knowledge he had about God at the time. Plus, Job didn't know that death and life were in the power of the tongue (i.e. affected by his words).
After this ordeal Job still ends up worshiping God. So essentially Job is the first documented case of Stockholm Syndrome. What else do you call it when you continue to worship someone who allowed Satan to kill your family just to prove a point? Even though Satan does all this horrible shit to Job...God somehow STILL comes off looking far worse.
Why wouldn’t Job worship God after being attacked by the devil—then restored, delivered, and blessed by God? Job never stopped loving God. Besides, Job’s relationship with God wasn’t based on “any Earthly thing”.
We can “all” learn from Job’s steadfast faith, and godly example.
Went back and fixed some errors on these last two posts.
Click https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-doQ4h73l_AJZREiORrwqkbCQJKSBJFjUAis72JpOgs/edit
Originally posted by JesusLovesYou
A two-year-old with a brain tumor is a descendant of Adam, and hence, born with a "sin nature".As far as a two-year old "knowing" what sin is, and that he/she has a sin nature, the answer is no, so God does not hold them accountable for their sins--yet.
But you completely side-stepped my question to "you". I'll answer if "for" you. You "have" sinned. In fact, you've sinned "many" times, so you have no right to complain about Adam's sin.
Have you even read your bible?
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Any God who punishes the innocent for the sins of another would be even worse than your genocidal son murdering prick of a God.
Regards
DL
JesusLovesYou
Job 2;3 is my favorite as it shows God talking to Satan and admitting to be evil.
I am surprised you would not quote it.
"although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'
God moved to destroy without a just cause.
Most Christians have developed an immoral double standard of morality because of stories like Job's.
There forgive God for the evil he does there, but tell me that if a man did the same, they would condemn him.
Have you developed that immoral double moral standard or do you condemn God for basically being the Don giving orders to his hit man to kill without a just cause?
Regards
DL