Superman vs. Savage Hulk (h2h) only

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Versatile, yes.

Superman is also weak to many of the things Surfer can do.

However...Surfer is also susceptible to the one thing Supey can do,and do very well, namely, being punched.

After all, if we are really just going to rely on comic stories....how has Surfer done against an even MORE limited character,the Hulk?

Actually he does really, really well and frequently busts out some level of versatility. Surfer's got about the best track record against Hulk of any character in Marvel. Unless I'm mistaken, Planet Hulk was pretty much Hulk's best showing against Norrin and there were so many mitigating circumstances that not much can actually be taken from their fight.

Originally posted by JBL
It koed superman. That's the point.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but at the same time, it's been established that Hulk is virtually always holding back, even when he's lost/losing. It's also been established that he can consciously control his anger level to a degree. The same logic of Supes excercing common sense in a forum fight to use his speed can be flipped to say that Green Scar will use his common sense(Savage Hulk obviously wouldn't apply) and stop holding back his strength as much as he needs to whenever he feels the need in a forum fight.

That's not to say that Hulk WOULD in a forum fight because people complained until there was a mod ruling against it, but there is a fairly obvious double standard at play.

Also Superman has multiple feats of busting out speed instantly in a completely normal situation. Hulk has 0 feats becoming WB in a normal situation.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not really. Hulk doesn't go WB because he doesn't want to kill. There is absolutely no reason why Superman doesn't always use speed and perceptions other than to help the story.

Also Superman has multiple feats of busting out speed instantly in a completely normal situation. Hulk has 0 feats becoming WB in a normal situation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you saying that Supes doesn't avoid hitting humans with his steel hard fist at near light speed out of regard to the human's safety?

I'll just say this. My take on Superman in a forum fight is that he will take some hits on purpose in order to know how powerful his foe is. He doesn't want to accidentally kill someone. After that, he will adjust accordingly.

With that said, Superman's perceptions (Metro man effect) will always be on though. Just like his durability is always on. So he can choose not to use full speed when striking but he can't choose to turn his perceptions off. And he will not choose to purposely not use speed to avoid being hit (unless he wants to gauge his opponent as I stated above).

Originally posted by h1a8
Hulk isn't a human though. But yes, Superman isn't going to start the fight hitting Hulk with all his speed and power.

I'll just say this. My take on Superman in a forum fight is that he will take some hits on purpose in order to know how powerful his foe is. He doesn't want to accidentally kill someone. After that, he will adjust accordingly.

With that said, Superman's perceptions (Metro man effect) will always be on though. Just like his durability is always on. So he can choose not to use full speed when striking but he can't choose to turn his perceptions off. And he will not choose to purposely not use speed to avoid being hit (unless he wants to gauge his opponent as I stated above).

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but at the same time, it's been established that Hulk is virtually always holding back, even when he's lost/losing. It's also been established that he can consciously control his anger level to a degree. The same logic of Supes excercing common sense in a forum fight to use his speed can be flipped to say that Green Scar will use his common sense(Savage Hulk obviously wouldn't apply) and stop holding back his strength as much as he needs to whenever he feels the need in a forum fight.

That's not to say that Hulk WOULD in a forum fight because people complained until there was a mod ruling against it, but there is a fairly obvious double standard at play.

Also, Supes DOES "turn his perceptions off" to a degree. Otherwise he'd be totally overloaded by the sensory input and his life would feel like an eternity. He wouldn't even be able to hold a conversation because each word spoken by someone else would feel like it went on forever. When he and Flash were conversing, there was specific mentioning of the fact that when they move at superspeed anything they're not focusing on looks like a blur.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you saying that Supes doesn't avoid hitting humans with his steel hard fist at near light speed out of regard to the human's safety?

Superman IS known to be a cold blooded killer.

At least according to legit sounding sites like Superdickery.com and something called The Onion.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I never said that flipping the logic would mean that Hulk goes WB right of the gate, I said...

Also, Supes DOES "turn his perceptions off" to a degree. Otherwise he'd be totally overloaded by the sensory input and his life would feel like an eternity. He wouldn't even be able to hold a conversation because each word spoken by someone else would feel like it went on forever. When he and Flash were conversing, there was specific mentioning of the fact that when they move at superspeed anything they're not focusing on looks like a blur.

I agree with Green Scar. The problem is that he will never go WB because of several reasons.

1. He doesn't want to destroy the planet with innocents.
2. He usually needs WWH level strength or lower to ko his enemies.

Yes he will use common sense and increase his might if he has to. Even Savage Hulk has gotten stronger throughout a fight. But he sometimes might not know exactly how much to increase his might out of fear of killing. And in some situations he will get koed before increasing it to the exact amount to ko and not kill.

I said "he can't turn them off" not "down".
I'm curious, what showing has Superman "turning down " his perceptions on purpose?

Assuming that you can produce that, then again, Superman would have no reason to reduce his perceptions in a dangerous fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All after the sequence of events I posted. It's not as if he goes WBH in every battle, even when losing. Hell, he didn't even attain those strength levels when saving the Earth from the Celestial.

Not after all of them. He turned WBH before entering the dark dimension is what I mean.

Threads with world breaker tend to have that in the stips though. Green scar after WWH could for all intentions and purposes go WBH on a whim. Then came all the ridiculous other personas and mixtures of hulks I dont Care about.

I'm just talking though, I dont know what the point people are heading for is.

Originally posted by h1a8
I agree with Green Scar. The problem is that he will never go WB because of several reasons.

1. He doesn't want to destroy the planet with innocents.
2. He usually needs WWH level strength or lower to ko his enemies.

Yes he will use common sense and increase his might if he has to. Even Savage Hulk has gotten stronger throughout a fight. But he sometimes might not know exactly how much to increase his might out of fear of killing. And in some situations he will get koed before increasing it to the exact amount to ko and not kill.

I said "he can't turn them off" not "down".
I'm curious, what showing has Superman "turning down " his perceptions on purpose?

Assuming that you can produce that, then again, Superman would have no reason to reduce his perceptions in a dangerous fight.

I pointed out the instance where Flash and Supes were talking as a specific instance of Supes "turning down his perceptions". It's just like his senses, he's become so accustomed to doing it out of necessity that now he's got them turned down to a large degree automatically unless he consciously decides to turn them on. That's not to say that he CAN'T turn them up easily enough, I was just refuting the idea that it's something that's ALWAYS on.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Not after all of them. He turned WBH before entering the dark dimension is what I mean.

Threads with world breaker tend to have that in the stips though. Green scar after WWH could for all intentions and purposes go WBH on a whim. Then came all the ridiculous other personas and mixtures of hulks I dont Care about.

I'm just talking though, I dont know what the point people are heading for is.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Threads HAVE to have that stipulation in regards to WB, it's required via mod ruling. That was the double standard I was talking about. In a typical Green Scar thread, the automatic assumption is that Hulk will lose all common sense and continue to hold back to "Sentry level" no matter how strong/powerful his opponent is even if it means losing.

👆 👆 👆

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ah but see he would only ever need to go WB if his opponent was at about that level of power anyway. And if his opponent is at about that level of power, there's really no reason for him not to. My greater point, is that he can scale up his power as much as he needs to. People say like to say things like "Herc hurt him" but if we applied the same logic people push for Supes there's no reason for him to scale his strength up to the point that Herc's a joke to him even without going WB. It's actually pretty simple, make himself way more powerful than he was during WWH, and thump his opponent rather than punch his opponent.

I pointed out the instance where Flash and Supes were talking as a specific instance of Supes "turning down his perceptions". It's just like his senses, he's become so accustomed to doing it out of necessity that now he's got them turned down to a large degree automatically unless he consciously decides to turn them on. That's not to say that he CAN'T turn them up easily enough, I was just refuting the idea that it's something that's ALWAYS on.

But that's not common sense. I'm pretty smart and I never thought of that.
So it's not common sense for Hulk get stronger than what he needs to be in order to thump someone.

There are several instances where Superman is casually talking (no hint of danger anywhere) or doing something and he still retains bullet slow motion perceptions. He can turn them up yes, but not OFF. Leaving them at their normal levels is sufficient enough here.

Originally posted by h1a8
But that's not common sense. I'm pretty smart and I never thought of that.
So it's not common sense for Hulk get stronger than what he needs to be in order to thump someone...

There are several instances where Superman is casually talking (no hint of danger anywhere) or doing something and he still retains bullet slow motion perceptions. He can turn them up yes, but not OFF. Leaving them at their normal levels is sufficient enough here.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=8YsuQKj4&id=6BA00C1FAD35E1F141F3DB0FB37B9C95074E629B&thid=OIP.8YsuQKj4SqHMMwkbZPJAhwEsDk&q=hulk+vs+doc+octopus&simid=608041979096272301&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=0

Yeah I know he has, it's an inconsitant thing. He's also been suprised/tagged by things slower than a bullet though. I wasn't saying that he's going to enter the fight with human level reactions, I was saying that it's not likely he'll enter into a fight with anything close to maxed reactions either.

Originally posted by h1a8
But that's not common sense. I'm pretty smart and I never thought of that.
So it's not common sense for Hulk get stronger than what he needs to be in order to thump someone.

There are several instances where Superman is casually talking (no hint of danger anywhere) or doing something and he still retains bullet slow motion perceptions. He can turn them up yes, but not OFF. Leaving them at their normal levels is sufficient enough here.

Your logic is so bizarre, I dont even know if I've got the gist of your post down correctly.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Threads HAVE to have that stipulation in regards to WB, it's required via mod ruling. That was the double standard I was talking about. In a typical Green Scar thread, the automatic assumption is that Hulk will lose all common sense and continue to hold back to "Sentry level" no matter how strong/powerful his opponent is even if it means losing.

Interesting. I assume its to stop threads that involve green scar from turning into "hulk goes WBH and stomps" which he likely would.

I havent been reading through all the thread , but the intention here seems to be, if theybstart swinging at each other, ala Superman vs Doomsday, who wins? And then it turned into Superman wouldn't get hit period.

I think the spirit of the thread should be followed, and that means a comic book style fight. Doesn't mean Supermans stupid, I always assumed he just enjoyed the challenge. And of course for story telling purposes. Its hard to write a good fight for someone as strong as Thanos more or less and almost as fast as flash.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Interesting. I assume its to stop threads that involve green scar from turning into "hulk goes WBH and stomps" which he likely would.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I havent been reading through all the thread , but the intention here seems to be, if theybstart swinging at each other, ala Superman vs Doomsday, who wins? And then it turned into Superman wouldn't get hit period.

I think the spirit of the thread should be followed, and that means a comic book style fight. Doesn't mean Supermans stupid, I always assumed he just enjoyed the challenge. And of course for story telling purposes. Its hard to write a good fight for someone as strong as Thanos more or less and almost as fast as flash.

Yeah I haven't even been talking about this thread, I just chimed in on a tangent raised by DS to point out the double standard.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yup. "Untouchable Flash" "Speedblitzing to KO Superman" are ok because it's just a matter of common sense, but Green Scar's basically not allowed to get any stronger than high herald(his highs from less powerful incarnations or his fight with Sentry,which ever you consider higher I suppose).

Yeah I haven't even been talking about this thread, I just chimed in on a tangent raised by DS to point out the double standard.

I agree, and it's a fair point to bring up that I haven't seen properly addressed.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You think "move even faster" is common sense but "get even stronger" isn't? And it's not like thumping an opponent who's far less powerful is something alien to Hulk. He's done it plenty of times before...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=8YsuQKj4&id=6BA00C1FAD35E1F141F3DB0FB37B9C95074E629B&thid=OIP.8YsuQKj4SqHMMwkbZPJAhwEsDk&q=hulk+vs+doc+octopus&simid=608041979096272301&selectedIndex=1&ajaxhist=0

Yeah I know he has, it's an inconsitant thing. He's also been suprised/tagged by things slower than a bullet though. I wasn't saying that he's going to enter the fight with human level reactions, I was saying that it's not likely he'll enter into a fight with anything close to maxed reactions either.

No not "move faster" but "don't get hit from the slow moving object."

The example you gave was Hulk thumping someone significantly weaker.
Not him increasing his strength far beyond someone just to thump them.
These are two different things.

It's inconsistent due to the plot, not his choice.

I already agreed that he can amp his reactions even further. But in fights like this he doesn't have to.

Originally posted by emu
If Hulk thumps someone, its normally because of his dynamic strength.

Your logic is so bizarre, I dont even know if I've got the gist of your post down correctly.