Violence at Neo Nazi protest.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
See, that is what bothers me about this subject. Antifa sometimes do bad shit, it is known. But they have not KILLED anyone on the street.

Nazi's have done so multiple times - yet SOMEHOW, Antifa's negative actions get brought up to try and minimize a person's death... If you drag the marker of outrage of murder any closer to "Fair Game" other than where it should be, then in my mind, you do not value life a all.

Yes, I stood up for that dreadlocks girl from Antifa, was I wrong in my assessment of her character? Possibly, but I stand by what I said. And if she had died, I would advocate throwing that prick into a dark cell and have the key tossed into a volcano.

The 5 murderers should get that treatment, and no ammunt of pointing and talking about antifa's antics will alter that course.

My main point of contention in this thread is why Antifa is being debated at all beyond anecdotal footnotes? I'll tell you why, Any amount of deflection off the subject at hand is better than opening holes in the ideology Trump seems to support. None of the more levelheaded Trumpers want it to seem like they are even being associated with people like Neo Nazis.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
this guy gets it.

👆

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
See, that is what bothers me about this subject. Antifa sometimes do bad shit, it is known. But they have not KILLED anyone on the street.

Nazi's have done so multiple times - yet SOMEHOW, Antifa's negative actions get brought up to try and minimize a person's death... If you drag the marker of outrage of murder any closer to "Fair Game" other than where it should be, then in my mind, you do not value life a all.

Yes, I stood up for that dreadlocks girl from Antifa, was I wrong in my assessment of her character? Possibly, but I stand by what I said. And if she had died, I would advocate throwing that prick into a dark cell and have the key tossed into a volcano.

The 5 murderers should get that treatment, and no ammunt of pointing and talking about antifa's antics will alter that course.

My main point of contention in this thread is why Antifa is being debated at all beyond anecdotal footnotes? I'll tell you why, Any amount of deflection off the subject at hand is better than opening holes in the ideology Trump seems to support. None of the more levelheaded Trumpers want it to seem like they are even being associated with people like Neo Nazis.

I find it really odd you want to just spout out rhetoric then come down with finite answers, why not just say they murderers should be tried and executed. Instead you want to blame Trump and cast blame where ever you can. Antifa has hurt many people.

Its also very telling you forgot about the person that shot Steve Scalise. And that the person on the subway that killed two girls was a rabid Bernie Socialist/Fascist.

Trump is no more to be blamed for this psycho terrorist then Obama should be for any radical islamic terrorist.

Originally posted by Sable
I find it really odd you want to just spout out rhetoric then come down with finite answers, why not just say they murderers should be tried and executed. Instead you want to blame Trump and cast blame where ever you can. Antifa has hurt many people.

Its also very telling you forgot about the person that shot Steve Scalise. And that the person on the subway that killed two girls was a rabid Bernie Socialist/Fascist.

Trump is no more to be blamed for this psycho terrorist then Obama should be for any radical islamic terrorist.

No, because I'm not talking about the events themselves. My opinion on that is well known. My current beef is with the people here who continually bring up the actions of a completely separate group of people in a thread where one of their number has been deliberately killed. Antifa's actions beyond anecdotal should not be used to even try to get a minor justification for direct murder in any form. That is a disgusting.

What does that have to do with Neo Nazi violence? Make a separate thread for it and we'll talk about it there, where it belongs.

And I wasn't blaming Trump, or Obama, or Clinton, or any other politician you wanna namedrop. But that is not stopping the Neo Nazi's taking Trump's LACK of direct condemnation as endorsement, which makes every other kind of Trump supporter incredibly nervous. That's not Trump's fault, and i never said it was, but that doesn't stop the flow on effect being very real.

Originally posted by Sable
I find it really odd you want to just spout out rhetoric then come down with finite answers, why not just say they murderers should be tried and executed. Instead you want to blame Trump and cast blame where ever you can. Antifa has hurt many people.

Its also very telling you forgot about the person that shot Steve Scalise. And that the person on the subway that killed two girls was a rabid Bernie Socialist/Fascist.

Trump is no more to be blamed for this psycho terrorist then Obama should be for any radical islamic terrorist.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, because I'm not talking about the events themselves. My opinion on that is well known. My current beef is with the people here who continually bring up the actions of a completely separate group of people in a thread where one of their number has been deliberately killed. Antifa's actions beyond anecdotal should not be used to even try to get a minor justification for direct murder in any form. That is a disgusting.

What does that have to do with Neo Nazi violence? Make a separate thread for it and we'll talk about it there, where it belongs.

And I wasn't blaming Trump, or Obama, or Clinton, or any other politician you wanna namedrop. But that is not stopping the Neo Nazi's taking Trump's LACK of direct condemnation as endorsement, which makes every other kind of Trump supporter incredibly nervous. That's not Trump's fault, and i never said it was, but that doesn't stop the flow on effect being very real.

All bullshit

Originally posted by Sable
All bullshit

How very illuminating. Try explaining instead of throwing around 2 word non arguments?

Originally posted by Sable
All bullshit

You threw up 3 paragraphs of nonsense that didnt address a single thing I said.

Originally posted by Sable
You threw up 3 paragraphs of nonsense that didnt address a single thing I said.

Actually, it did. But deny it if you have to, mr. strawman filled with red herrings.

Remember, you brought up 2 unrelated events, then a false comparative? I didn't have to answer shit you said, but I deigned to give you a response that rerails the discussion back on track. It's not my fault you can't follow.

And then you threw a tantrum, refusing to answer a single thing.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
See, that is what bothers me about this subject. Antifa sometimes do bad shit, it is known. But they have not KILLED anyone on the street.

No, just smashed them in the skull with bike locks, thrown molotov cocktails, set cars on fire, destroyed property, and a whole lot of physical violence.

Nazi's have done so multiple times - yet SOMEHOW, Antifa's negative actions get brought up to try and minimize a person's death... If you drag the marker of outrage of murder any closer to "Fair Game" other than where it should be, then in my mind, you do not value life a all.

Lol nope, don't spin this fairy tale. The death isn't being minimized. Nobody has ever said "they deserved to die" or "there was justification". What is usually said is that *both* sides were utterly violent and people ended up dead and thus both deserve to be condemned.

Yes, I stood up for that dreadlocks girl from Antifa, was I wrong in my assessment of her character? Possibly, but I stand by what I said. And if she had died, I would advocate throwing that prick into a dark cell and have the key tossed into a volcano.

The 5 murderers should get that treatment, and no ammunt of pointing and talking about antifa's antics will alter that course.

Who has said the people shouldn't be put in jail? I would have no problem if they were all executed this afternoon. None.

My main point of contention in this thread is why Antifa is being debated at all beyond anecdotal footnotes? I'll tell you why, Any amount of deflection off the subject at hand is better than opening holes in the ideology Trump seems to support. None of the more levelheaded Trumpers want it to seem like they are even being associated with people like Neo Nazis.

Because they were the other side of this violent clash that lead to people losing their lives. They sure as hell injured people, they did not kill, but their actions are *very* much a part of this in terms of whether or not it should be ignored or merely be a footnote.

Especially when you have the media more or less portraying one side ass 100% innocent. When CNN says "one side of this doesn't get into fistfights, doesn't cause chaos or leave a trail of injured people behind them" yeah, that is the exact reason both sides needed to be condemned.

For all the rhetoric I hear about "Trump emboldens them!" they sure do want to paint the other side as saints, and how would *that* not embolden the Antifa thugs? These shitheads see themselves as freedom fighters, and there is a problem when people who are supposed to be sane begin treating them as such.

They could not even bring themselves to describe the situation like you did. No, there was obvious willful ignorance here. Antifa have not killed anyone, yet. Severely injured some? Yep. Performed actions that could have definitely lead to death? Yep, hurling bricks at people can kill. Beating them with durable metal objects could also kill. So they can be quite violent, and we're going to let some treat them as heroes? Or at the very least, as 100% innocent?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Actually, it did. But deny it if you have to, mr. strawman filled with red herrings.

Remember, you brought up 2 unrelated events, then a false comparative? I didn't have to answer shit you said, but I deigned to give you a response that rerails the discussion back on track. It's not my fault you can't follow.

And then you threw a tantrum, refusing to answer a single thing.

Respond directly instead of jacking around.

Originally posted by Surtur
No, just smashed them in the skull with bike locks, thrown molotov cocktails, set cars on fire, destroyed property, and a whole f*ckton of physical violence.

Was this ever denied? What does that have to do with someone dying?

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol nope, don't spin this fairy tale. The death isn't being minimized. Nobody has ever said "they deserved to die" or "there was justification". What is usually said is that *both* sides were utterly violent and someone ended up dead and thus both deserve to be condemned.

Except you keep trying to draw attention to Antifa's antics more and more and more in a thread that is not about Antifa's antics, but the death of a potential Antifa member at the actions of a group known to harbor and praise people who kill for something as pointless as a difference of opinion.

Originally posted by Surtur
Who has said the people shouldn't be put in jail? I would have no problem if they were all executed this afternoon. None.

Then talk about that rather than Antifa's actions here. Antifa's got multiple threads dedicated to it's bullshit, use them.

Originally posted by Surtur
Because they were part of the violence that ultimately lead to people losing their lives. They sure as hell injured people, they did not kill, but their actions are *very* much a part of this.

Especially when you have the media more or less portraying one side ass 100% innocent. When CNN says "one side of this doesn't get into fistfights, doesn't cause chaos or leave a trail of injured people behind them" yeah, that is the exact reason both sides needed to be condemned.

For all the rhetoric I hear about "Trump emboldens them!" they sure do want to paint the other side as saints, and how would *that* not embolden the Antifa thugs? These shitheads see themselves as freedom fighters, and there is a problem when people who are supposed to be sane begin treating them as such.

They could not even bring themselves to describe the situation like you did. No, there was obvious willful ignorance here.

Outside of the direct topic, you need to prove your wider narrative of CNN's fake news. I'm not saying I endorse CNN, but if you are going to make a fake narrative, you need to explain your standards of evidence then provide that evidence.

As for the rest of that last bit I don't know what you mean there... I certainly never said Antifa was innocent, but Antifa's guilt or innocence is not the subject at hand here. What is the issue, is that a person is dead, a Neo Nazi did it and that is a fact. it's also not surprising that it would be the Nazis who crossed the uncrossable line. THAT is the subject.

Originally posted by Sable
Respond directly instead of jacking around.

I did respond directly. I'm not repeating myself, or humoring a deliberately stupid reply.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
People getting killed because Nazi's were allowed to assembly is what I find disturbing. 😐

Um, they do, but in turn people have a right to protest Nazi rallies promoting violence. It's under the Freedom of Assembly/Freedom of Association/Freedom of Speech

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but the fact remains that they ARE allowed under the law of the land. That's why they were given the proper legal permit to hold their rally. It's not even actually up to the President, the Supreme Court ruled they were allowed back in 1977. And that was in regards to a mostly Jewish community where 1 in 6 citizens were holocaust survivors. If people want to try to challenge the Supreme Court ruling they are welcome to, but right now as things stand it's considered free speech and people shouldn't be trying to shut them down unless/until the law is changed.

free speech does not entitle anyone to say/do what they want unchallenged. as far as the bill of rights is concerned, anti-protesters had the same right to be there.
nothing in the first ammendment forbids protesting without a permit. unless i missed something? feel free to correct me with facts.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
free speech does not entitle anyone to say/do what they want unchallenged. as far as the bill of rights is concerned, anti-protesters had the same right to be there.
nothing in the first ammendment forbids protesting without a permit. unless i missed something? feel free to correct me with facts.

As for the permit, I'm unsure of the exact laws around it but I know that many places require one for a large assembly in public. Most likely as a way to give a heads up to the city so they know what kind of security is going to be required. If the counter protesters had gotten one of their own, there likely would have been a bigger police presence to keep the two sides apart in an effort to prevent fighting and such.

shouldn't it be up to municipal officials to forsee that allowing nazis to preach hate and eliminationist rhetoric will probably meet with some angry opposition? common sense and all?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your right, it doesn't allow them to actively encouage violence. If there was a guy standing there saying "We need to start killing all the blacks and Jews when this is over" or "We need to riot" or "Will one of you run these guys over with a car" THAT would be against the law. But contrary to popular belief, general hate speech IS allowed and protected by the law.

As for the permit, I'm unsure of the exact laws around it but I know that many places require one for a large assembly in public. Most likely as a way to give a heads up to the city so they know what kind of security is going to be required. If the counter protesters had gotten one of their own, there likely would have been a bigger police presence to keep the two sides apart in an effort to prevent fighting and such.

The thing is, generally at hate rallies like those, the words are used to fuel the actions. Otherwise all rallies are are massive mental masturbation sessions "Lets talk about how much we hate people who arn't even here. Ok? I hate Blacks/Latinos/Asians/Anyone different because (obvious opinionated racist bigotry based on subjective criteria)" "Yes, lets talk pointlessly about this subject very loudly"

Isn't that what protesting is though? Talking pointlessly about a subject very loudly?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Isn't that what protesting is though? Talking pointlessly about a subject very loudly?

Yep, hence why I don't attend and have never attended such things. It literally achieves nothing meaningful.