Originally posted by zopzop
I don't hate the Marvel family. I hate how people exaggerate their power level. The most powerful of them, CM and BA, are at the low end of Mid Herald at their BEST (no outside amping). Mary Marvel and Captain Marvel Jr are at the low end of High Meta at their BEST.
Lmao no dear just stop
Originally posted by -Pr-
Rating them THAT lowly does imply at least a little negative bias, to be fair.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lmao no dear just stop
Originally posted by Supermutant
Zop, just for giggles who do you consider in DC as elite flying bricks?
Originally posted by Facee
I always thought of BA and CM as HH to be honest.Where would you rate guys like say Gladiator and current Hyperion?
Originally posted by zopzop
Prove me wrong. CM and BA don't have the feats or fights to compare to true high heralds. I was also being super generous with my ranking of Mary M and Captain M Jr. I made a Mary Marvel Vs thread and Abhi (a knowledgeable DC poster) said she couldn't even make it past Wonder Man. I'm gonna bump that thread now.Superman, Orion, Wonder Woman with gear (Lasso/Sword/Tiara/Bracers), etc..
Gladiator is on the low end of Mid Herald (like BA and CM). Hyperion is on the low/mid end of High Herald.
You know their feats. Im not gonna scan dump to convince you. Marvel/Adam more or less equal to Regular Clark..its when he amps is when he is in a class of his own. They cant amp. Noone should bat an eye if either of them stalemated, lost to or beat him. They have enough on panel appearances with and against each other to compare and contrast. If i had to place a bet itd be Superman simply becsuse he has more feats to draw on.
Lol at Abhi. Yes hes knowledgeable but hes biased as phuck, and this coming from a gal who actually likes him. You might have well said H1 or Carver
Originally posted by zopzop
Prove me wrong. CM and BA don't have the feats or fights to compare to true high heralds. I was also being super generous with my ranking of Mary M and Captain M Jr. I made a Mary Marvel Vs thread and Abhi (a knowledgeable DC poster) said she couldn't even make it past Wonder Man. I'm gonna bump that thread now.
I'm speaking specifically about Adam and Billy. Are we both talking about post crisis, or are we getting wires crossed here and speaking about different versions?
Because at the very least, post crisis Adam has enough to put him even at WORST in the lower end of the high-herald bracket, imo.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm speaking specifically about Adam and Billy. Are we both talking about post crisis, or are we getting wires crossed here and speaking about different versions?Because at the very least, post crisis Adam has enough to put him even at WORST in the lower end of the high-herald bracket, imo.
BA's best showing was the trouncing of the JSA and fighting that WWIII Super Hero Mob that jumped him. Those showings are sort of controversial because some people believe he was amped (by an extra god or something).
Aside from those showings what has he or Billy ever done? I know Abhi will bring up the demon possessed/mind controlled JLA vs Billy but how does that count? They obviously weren't fighting to the best of their abilities against him.
As to the thread :
Hal has killed a LEGIT Trans level being (at least), he's taken control of a universal ABSTRACT and forced it to his bidding, and not to mention all the space cheese feats the elite Lanterns have.
Originally posted by zopzop
It's definitely Post Crisis but there are so many different versions of them Post Crisis because of the various DC reboots no?BA's best showing was the trouncing of the JSA and fighting that WWIII Super Hero Mob that jumped him. Those showings are sort of controversial because some people believe he was amped (by an extra god or something).
Aside from those showings what has he or Billy ever done? I know Abhi will bring up the demon possessed/mind controlled JLA vs Billy but how does that count? They obviously weren't fighting to the best of their abilities against him.
As to the thread :
Hal has killed a LEGIT Trans level being (at least), he's taken control of a universal ABSTRACT and forced it to his bidding, and not to mention all the space cheese feats the elite Lanterns have.
What do you mean? Post Crisis to Flashpoint is one era in general. You can take them as one version if you like. In fact I encourage it.
That was debunked ages ago.
They've both fought against other heralds and done well enough to gauge their level. At least imo. I am curious though, how would you rate Billy and Adam against say, Diana? Or J'onn?
I actually sided with Hal at the start of the thread, so you'll get no argument from me about him winning.
Originally posted by -Pr-
What do you mean? Post Crisis to Flashpoint is one era in general. You can take them as one version if you like. In fact I encourage it.That was debunked ages ago.
They've both fought against other heralds and done well enough to gauge their level. At least imo. I am curious though, how would you rate Billy and Adam against say, Diana? Or J'onn?I actually sided with Hal at the start of the thread, so you'll get no argument from me about him winning.
Diana would also ruin CM's or BA's day. Comparable physical stats but MUCH better gear (CM and BA have none). Her lasso is an instant win against anyone in the Marvel family. Lasso their asses, force them to speak the magic word, break their neck. Fin. Even without lasso cheese, Wonder Woman destroyed an AMPED Mary Marvel. If she did that to an amped Mary, I'm sure Billy or Adam would suffer the same fate.
Originally posted by zopzop
Was it? Originally I was in the 'no he wasn't amped' category but I'm starting to believe the 'he was amped' category was/is right.J'onn is a jobber. He was the tools to destroy CM or BA (or most other herald level beings) but the writers love humiliating him. In a forum fight, he breaks either CM or BA in two.
Diana would also ruin CM's or BA's day. Comparable physical stats but MUCH better gear (CM and BA have none). Her lasso is an instant win against anyone in the Marvel family. Lasso their asses, force them to speak the magic word, break their neck. Fin. Even without lasso cheese, Wonder Woman destroyed an AMPED Mary Marvel. If she did that to an amped Mary, I'm sure Billy or Adam would suffer the same fate. [/B]
iirc he wasn't amped. He took back power he'd given to Isis.
I was speaking purely physically, how did you rate them. J'onn, Diana and even Arthur are now all around the same physical level, so I was wondering where you'd put Adam and Billy in that context.
Originally posted by zopzop
Was it? Originally I was in the 'no he wasn't amped' category but I'm starting to believe the 'he was amped' category was/is right.J'onn is a jobber. He was the tools to destroy CM or BA (or most other herald level beings) but the writers love humiliating him. In a forum fight, he breaks either CM or BA in two.
Diana would also ruin CM's or BA's day. Comparable physical stats but MUCH better gear (CM and BA have none). Her lasso is an instant win against anyone in the Marvel family. Lasso their asses, force them to speak the magic word, break their neck. Fin. Even without lasso cheese, Wonder Woman destroyed an AMPED Mary Marvel. If she did that to an amped Mary, I'm sure Billy or Adam would suffer the same fate. [/B]
Funny thing, Diana has lost twice to Cap and has outright stated that Adam is more powerful than she is.
Cap has stalemated Lobo while weakened, defeated J'onn twice, fought both Kyle and Hal (younger version) at once and got the better of them etc.
No way he is low herald.
Originally posted by -Pr-
iirc he wasn't amped. He took back power he'd given to Isis.I was speaking purely physically, how did you rate them. J'onn, Diana and even Arthur are now all around the same physical level, so I was wondering where you'd put Adam and Billy in that context.
Physically, CM and BA are slightly above Diana or J'onn or Arthur. In a physical fight, I'd give it to CM or BA after a good tussle. Diana would be the most difficult opponent because of her fighting skills, then Arthur. J'onn isn't known to be some great H2H warrior.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Mary wasn't amped in Final Crisis. She was powered by Desaad and got stalemated by Supergirl.Funny thing, Diana has lost twice to Cap and has outright stated that Adam is more powerful than she is.
Cap has stalemated Lobo while weakened, defeated J'onn twice, fought both Kyle and Hal (younger version) at once and got the better of them etc.
No way he is low herald.
B) I never called CM or BA low heralds. I just said they were on the low end of the MID HERALD tier.
Originally posted by zopzopA) I'd have no problem with standard Mary being Supergirl level. In fact, I think that would be a fair 'tier' for her to be in. DC seems to have sh|t all over her character. Back during the "Formerly known as the Justice League" days a mind controlled Mary stomped a mind controlled Captain Atom into paste. They even said she was one of the most powerful members of that team. Look at her now! You believed she couldn't even get a majority vs Wonder Man in my Mary VS thread on this forum.
That's more a low showing for Cap than it's a good feat for Mary.
Even Matrix Supergirl choked her out. Mary is literally powered by a portion of Cap's power. Her being that low is fitting.
Cap is always that powerful though. He is an original big gun like Superman and that rivalry is a legendary one like Thor vs Hulk.
B) I never called CM or BA low heralds. I just said they were on the low end of the MID HERALD tier.
That's bullshit. No mid herald is running through JSA, oneshotting power girl and laugh off Dr Fate. I wouldn't even give most high herald odds on that.
Originally posted by zopzop
If he wasn't amped that's a great showing for him. But I'm not so sure.Physically, CM and BA are slightly above Diana or J'onn or Arthur. In a physical fight, I'd give it to CM or BA after a good tussle. Diana would be the most difficult opponent because of her fighting skills, then Arthur. J'onn isn't known to be some great H2H warrior.
About? The quality of the feat? Or the possibility of amping. I'm only giving my best recollection, as it's been a while since I read it.
If they're physically able to beat someone like Diana, would that not, alone, put them in the HH tier?
Considering Adam can oneshot Power Girl.
http://i.imgur.com/iT4Zn0b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mBrtiTT.jpg
It's highly unlikely that he has only a slight edge in strength to wonder woman.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's more a low showing for Cap than it's a good feat for Mary.Even Matrix Supergirl choked her out. Mary is literally powered by a portion of Cap's power. Her being that low is fitting.
Cap is always that powerful though. He is an original big gun like Superman and that rivalry is a legendary one like Thor vs Hulk.
That's bullshit. No mid herald is running through JSA, oneshotting power girl and laugh off Dr Fate. I wouldn't even give most high herald odds on that.
Originally posted by -Pr-
About? The quality of the feat? Or the possibility of amping. I'm only giving my best recollection, as it's been a while since I read it.
If they're physically able to beat someone like Diana, would that not, alone, put them in the HH tier?
