Ironfist vs. Mjolnir

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Here is a CV measurement of the boulder "feat".

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/mcu-kurse-boulder-feat-1827540/?page=1

They place the weight at around 300-500 tons and the force of the toss at 1.02 Gigajoules. I'm a bit skeptical with their rest of their math but they didn't get too far off from where I was with the weight when I did a calculation some time back w/c came up with 211 tons.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15650172&highlight=Boulder+userid%3A138814#post15650172

The Boulder is approximately an ellipsoid. V=4/3pi*a*b*c
Also Kurse is standing at most 2 meters tall (not taller), especially since he's not standing completely straight up.
a=3m, b=2m, and c=2m
V=50m^3.
As a lower estimate D=2tons/m^3
M=D*V= 2×50= 100ton.

The first problem I have is that the Boulder appeared to be composed of much dirt (or something even less dense than rock). The material appears very soft. If this is the case then then it would be somewhere between 10—70tons.

The second problem is the Boulder is a much smaller size when Kurse breaks it off and lifts it from the grounded part. It becomes bigger in the next scene. The calculations come from the scene where it is shown LARGEST so this isn't really a problem. Just wanted to point it out.

The third problem is the calculation of the throw. Kurse uses about 1 meter of distance (bending knees and extending arms) to accelerate the Boulder from 0 to about 74ft/s (23m/s). This give an acceleration of 265m/s^2.
Force = MA = 270ton minimum.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
But Danny sent a woman flying through a door. A door forged from a tree.

First think of force to break the sword in half.
Then think of the force to break a small section of the sword in half? Much more force.
Now think of the force required to break many small sections in half.
Even much more force.

Note: These breaking strength of durable steel is in the tons.

How is it not debatable when the very presence of energy abilities adds a new factor to the equation? That's like saying the best player in the league won't have any impact over whether his team will win or not.

When thrown, Mjolnir basically destroys anything in it's way not durable enough to take a hit from it, without slowing down. Anything that is, gets knocked over(like the Destroyer or Hulk) It just keeps going before Thor calls it back. It's literally remote controlled, so unless a person unworthy tries to grab it, it just keeps barreling through stuff. You would know this if you watched all 4 movies with Thor in them.

Are you dropping your argument that Hulk and Quicksilver stopped Mjolnir under their own power and it wasn't the worthiness enchantment activating when someone unworthy tried to hold the hammer?

h1:

Quote function is broken. So even with your usual downplay math (reducing mass of rock even tho rock averages at 2.7t/m3 at the low end and 3.2t/m3 at the high end, reducing Kurse's height even tho he had his arms raised as part of the calculation and his bent knees were already considered in the CV calcs if you look at it, Ignoring the portions of the rock that is offscreen, etc), you admit that the estimation that you keep repeating of 5-10 tons is completely and utterly absurd?

And LOL at it being soft. There you go again, making stuff up. You have no proof of this, especially since when Kurse punched it, it shattered like solid rock would and that when he lifted and tossed it, it was able to support its weight (like solid rock would) instead of crumbling. So, no, ppl should just ignore anything you say at this point.

And are you retarded? There is no way a rock weighing in at 100 tons (even at your estimate) would drop off to 10 tons unless it is 95% dirt. Think about it, like literally think. This is why ppl should just ignore you, you are so sleazy and dishonest with these "estimates". SMDH.

Edit. Actually no. 1 cubic yard of dirt weighs in at a ton (1/3 of that of rock, 1/2 that of the rock weight you used). So even with your usual dishonest downplay math, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for that rock to weigh in anything close to less than 40-50 tons (even tho it is not composed of dirt at all and would weigh in at 200+ tons on the low end or 500 tons at high end if more trustworthy calcs are looked at) even if it is 100% dirt.

Source: http://www.dansdirtandgravel.com/material_calculator.htm

Originally posted by Nibedicus
h1:

Quote function is broken. So even with your usual downplay math (reducing mass of rock even tho rock averages at 2.7t/m3 at the low end and 3.2t/m3 at the high end, reducing Kurse's height even tho he had his arms raised as part of the calculation and his bent knees were already considered in the CV calcs if you look at it, Ignoring the portions of the rock that is offscreen, etc), you admit that the estimation that you keep repeating of 5-10 tons is completely and utterly absurd?

And LOL at it being soft. There you go again, making stuff up. You have no proof of this, especially since when Kurse punched it, it shattered like solid rock would and that when he lifted and tossed it, it was able to support its weight (like solid rock would) instead of crumbling. So, no, ppl should just ignore anything you say at this point.

And are you retarded? There is no way a rock weighing in at 100 tons (even at your estimate) would drop off to 10 tons unless it is 95% dirt. Think about it, like literally think. This is why ppl should just ignore you, you are so sleazy and dishonest with these "estimates". SMDH.

It looks like soft material. This is a fact (not an opinion). We have no idea how it formed or what it is made of. This is a fact (not an opinion). It doesn't look like a boulder made of solid rock, especially seeing dust and dirt come from it as he was lifting it. Giving it the benefit of the doubt (bad special effects) then it is still roughly about 100 tons.

I did the calculation, independent of the link you posted. I measured Kurse from top of head to his toes and ignored the fact that his knees were bent. The actor is not taller than 2 meters.

Rock can have densities as low as 2T/m^3. This is a fact.

And your logic is faulty. Styrofoam, rubber, plastic, and many other materials would support their own weight as well.

It didn't look like solid rock when Kurse busted it. It looked like it was made of some sort of solid ash material. Lots of dirt and dust was coming from it.

If you honestly believe that the boulder LOOKED like it weighed more than 10tons (not meant to weigh more than 10 tons) then something is seriously wrong with you. Anyone with common sense would tell you that shit looked like it weighed problem a few tons at most.

Edit. Actually no. 1 cubic yard of dirt weighs in at a ton (1/3 of that of rock, 1/2 that of the rock weight you used). So even with your usual dishonest downplay math, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for that rock to weigh in anything close to less than 40-50 tons (even tho it is not composed of dirt at all and would weigh in at 200+ tons on the low end or 500 tons at high end if more trustworthy calcs are looked at) even if it is 100% dirt.

This is what was in my post. Did you miss it?

The first problem I have is that the Boulder appeared to be composed of much dirt (or something even less dense than rock). The material appears very soft. If this is the case then then it would be somewhere between 10—70tons.

Originally posted by KingD19
How is it not debatable when the very presence of energy abilities adds a new factor to the equation? That's like saying the best player in the league won't have any impact over whether his team will win or not.

When thrown, Mjolnir basically destroys anything in it's way not durable enough to take a hit from it, without slowing down. Anything that is, gets knocked over(like the Destroyer or Hulk) It just keeps going before Thor calls it back. It's literally remote controlled, so unless a person unworthy tries to grab it, it just keeps barreling through stuff. You would know this if you watched all 4 movies with Thor in them.

You have to prove this. Prove that Mjolnir is the unstoppable Juggernaut. Kurse already hit it away. Thor is a very strong being. Any very strong being can throw a very durable hammer with the exact same effects.

Originally posted by h1a8
Kurse has no energy abilities when striking. He's just very strong. Also, there was no evidence that Kurse used anything other than brute force to hit Mjolnir away.

You have to prove this. Prove that Mjolnir is the unstoppable Juggernaut. Kurse already hit it away. Thor is a very strong being. Any very strong being can throw a very durable hammer with the exact same effects.

I already proved it. When summoning Mjolnir during his fight with Hulk, you see it tearing through the ship to get to Thor. When separated by a dimension, Mjolnir kept flying into space looking for Thor, then flew back to him when he reappeared. He's thrown it at Chitauri in one direction, and it's flown back to him from behind him. It knocked how many Frost Giants out of the way on Jotunheim?

There are tons of instances and everyone knows this apparently but you, because you either A) have no idea what the f*ck you're talking about. Or A)don't even know the material, and still have no idea what the f*ck you're talking about.

Because seriously? Because he's strong he can throw it far? That doesn't explain half the shit the hammer does when not in Thor's hands and you know it.

Wait... Did H1 basically just claim that Thor's hammer tosses can be replicated by anyone with comparable strength to him? Despite the fact that Mjolnir has numerous instances of completely ignoring the laws of physics when Thor wants it to? lol.

Originally posted by h1a8
It looks like soft material. This is a fact (not an opinion). We have no idea how it formed or what it is made of. This is a fact (not an opinion). It doesn't look like a boulder made of solid rock, especially seeing dust and dirt come from it as he was lifting it. Giving it the benefit of the doubt (bad special effects) then it is still roughly about 100 tons.

I did the calculation, independent of the link you posted. I measured Kurse from top of head to his toes and ignored the fact that his knees were bent. The actor is not taller than 2 meters.

Rock can have densities as low as 2T/m^3. This is a fact.

And your logic is faulty. Styrofoam, rubber, plastic, and many other materials would support their own weight as well.

It didn't look like solid rock when Kurse busted it. It looked like it was made of some sort of solid ash material. Lots of dirt and dust was coming from it.

If you honestly believe that the boulder LOOKED like it weighed more than 10tons (not meant to weigh more than 10 tons) then something is seriously wrong with you. Anyone with common sense would tell you that shit looked like it weighed problem a few tons at most.

Citation needed on the ff:

-That the material is factually soft rock.
-Which solid rock is 2t/m3? Pls provide links to proof.
-Pls provde solid material that would weigh in at less than 10 tons at 50m3.

Your BS logic is as follows:
-We do not go with the lowest possible density of material. We go by averages. Unless you can PROVE that the writer meant it to be the least dense type of rock possible.
-Styrofoam and rubber and plastic (when solid) tends to have durability exceeding its weight. Dirt does not. Moron. Dirt would crumble under its own weight given the weight involved (especially on toss).
-And even dirt has a higher weight than the "few tons" BS you keep spewing. Keep up. Even 50m3 of dirt would, on average, weigh over 50 tons as per my link. Even freakin ash weighs close to that of dirt (50 lbs per ft3) so durrr on that soft ash comment.
-Your own calcs point to at least 100 tons yet you keep spewing that "it weighs no more than a few tons " based on nothing more than your provenly biased opinion.
-We don't go by what you think something "looks" as we alllll know how biased you are.

BZ me on the weight of the rock. Mine is 150-200 tons. Yours is 10 tons. Loser leaves KMC for good.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is what was in my post. Did you miss it?

So you admit this is BS?

Originally posted by h1a8
Note: The boulder weighed between 5-20 tons. My best guess is probably 5 tons or less.

Originally posted by h1a8
If you honestly believe that the boulder LOOKED like it weighed more than 10tons (not meant to weigh more than 10 tons) then something is seriously wrong with you. Anyone with common sense would tell you that shit looked like it weighed problem a few tons at most.

Originally posted by h1a8
It looks like soft material. This is a fact (not an opinion).

Same way the pillar that Bane punched didn't look like cement right?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
So you admit this is BS?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Citation needed on the ff:

-That the material is factually soft rock.
-Which solid rock is 2t/m3? Pls provide links to proof.
-Pls provde solid material that would weigh in at less than 10 tons at 50m3.

Your BS logic is as follows:
-We do not go with the lowest possible density of material. We go by averages. Unless you can PROVE that the writer meant it to be the least dense type of rock possible.
-Styrofoam and rubber and plastic (when solid) tends to have durability exceeding its weight. Dirt does not. Moron. Dirt would crumble under its own weight given the weight involved (especially on toss).
-And even dirt has a higher weight than the "few tons" BS you keep spewing. Keep up. Even 50m3 of dirt would, on average, weigh over 50 tons as per my link. Even freakin ash weighs close to that of dirt (50 lbs per ft3) so durrr on that soft ash comment.
-Your own calcs point to at least 100 tons yet you keep spewing that "it weighs no more than a few tons " based on nothing more than your provenly biased opinion.
-We don't go by what you think something "looks" as we alllll know how biased you are.

BZ me on the weight of the rock. Mine is 150-200 tons. Yours is 10 tons. Loser leaves KMC for good.

Feathers, foam, ash, etc.

I go by the numbers that will give the lowest estimate. That why it proves the true feat is equal or greater.

I calculated dirt to be about 70 tons in the very beginning. That's why I said 10-70tons where do you think the 70 came from?. The lower 10 ton estimate is assuming it is less dense than dirt.
Do I have to type everything?

I'm not claiming 10 tons on the Boulder, as I have no idea on the writer's intentions. It could be anywhere from less than 10 tons to about 100 tons.

The Boulder didn't seem completely solid (or dense) either. Any physicist would estimate the Boulder to be less than 10 tons solely off appearance.
You are a fool if you think that Boulder looks like rock. It very much can be intented to be, be can't be sure.

Your reading comprehension sucks, or you just don't read all of my posts.
My initial claim was less than 10 tons based solely off appearance. But considering the Boulder was intended to be solid rock (with no hollowness) I then claimed it could possibly be up to 100 tons.

I don't have a problem with the Boulder being about 100 tons, as you see from my latter posts. So what's the trolling about?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Same way the pillar that Bane punched didn't look like cement right?

Originally posted by h1a8
Feathers, foam, ash, etc.

I go by the numbers that will give the lowest estimate. That why it proves the true feat is equal or greater.

I calculated dirt to be about 70 tons in the very beginning. That's why I said 10-70tons where do you think the 70 came from?. The lower 10 ton estimate is assuming it is less dense than dirt.
Do I have to type everything?

I'm not claiming 10 tons on the Boulder, as I have no idea on the writer's intentions. It could be anywhere from less than 10 tons to about 100 tons.

The Boulder didn't seem completely solid (or dense) either. Any physicist would estimate the Boulder to be less than 10 tons solely off appearance.
You are a fool if you think that Boulder looks like rock. It very much can be intented to be, be can't be sure.

Your reading comprehension sucks, or you just don't read all of my posts.
My initial claim was less than 10 tons based solely off appearance. But considering the Boulder was intended to be solid rock (with no hollowness) I then claimed it could possibly be up to 100 tons.

I don't have a problem with the Boulder being about 100 tons, as you see from my latter posts. So what's the trolling about?

And yet you do not supply a type of rock that weighs in at 2tons/m3. And, nope, we do not go by minimums, we go by averages. You don't have to type everything, but if you type something stupid, expect it to be called out.

Less dense than dirt yet holds it's shape after being lifted and thrown. Lol. And you cannot even provide a natural occuring material that would be 1/7th that of dirt that Kurse would throw.

Lol, so you think Kurse punched a big pile of ash/feather/foam and threw it at Thor? lol on you.

You're not an authority on physics, and thus cannot speak for any physicist. So lol2x. And your opinion on what something looks like mean less than dirt here.

It cannot be anywhere at 10 tons. You have no way of being able to justify this number other than your own bias.

And FYI, your initial claim was this:

Originally posted by h1a8
.Note: The boulder weighed between 5-20 tons. My best guess is probably 5 tons or less.

Your "best guesses" suck. So no one should really listen to you when you say anything. Not that they do. No one really listens to you (other than those that want their biases confirmed even by bad logic). It's just funny how badly you suck at guessing anything and yet continue to to do so and seem to expect ppl to give you one iota of belief.

t's funny how h1 keeps going on about what it "looks like" whereas everywhere else he states we should ignore visuals and go with writer's intention.

Not that we needed it, but it's just more proof of his double standards.

Originally posted by Silent Master
t's funny how h1 keeps going on about what it "looks like" whereas everywhere else he states we should ignore visuals and go with writer's intention.

Not that we needed it, but it's just more proof of his double standards.

I considered the possible intention that it was made of Earthlike rock and where the gravity of the world is similar to our own. I never claimed it wasn't intended to be rock. I have no problem with it being made of solid rock. They just did a shitty job in making it look like rock.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
And yet you do not supply a type of rock that weighs in at 2tons/m3. And, nope, we do not go by minimums, we go by averages. You don't have to type everything, but if you type something stupid, expect it to be called out.

Less dense than dirt yet holds it's shape after being lifted and thrown. Lol. And you cannot even provide a natural occuring material that would be 1/7th that of dirt that Kurse would throw.

Lol, so you think Kurse punched a big pile of ash/feather/foam and threw it at Thor? lol on you.

You're not an authority on physics, and thus cannot speak for any physicist. So lol2x. And your opinion on what something looks like mean less than dirt here.

It cannot be anywhere at 10 tons. You have no way of being able to justify this number other than your own bias.

And FYI, your initial claim was this:

Your "best guesses" suck. So no one should really listen to you when you say anything. Not that they do. No one really listens to you (other than those that want their biases confirmed even by bad logic). It's just funny how badly you suck at guessing anything and yet continue to to do so and seem to expect ppl to give you one iota of belief.

It does not appear to be made of solid rock. This isn't debatable. I have said this several times. Look how it was significantly dripping with the soft material as Kurse lifted it off the mound. But it could be meant to be rock, just bad special effects. It's like it's made something light and not very hard.

By best guess is still 5-10 tons if the material is not meant to be normal rock. I stand by that. You are an idiot to actually think the boulder APPEARS to weigh more than 10 tons.

It's hilarious how you're still using what you claim it "looks like" in order to downplay The feat's impressiveness. What happened to your standard of we should ignore visuals and just go on writer's intention?