Originally posted by BackFire
Hold on. I never said that Trump doing this was illegal. I don't think it is. It's very clearly within his power to make decisions like this. The question was whether it was actually unconstitutional for Obama to implement DACA.The link you provided doesn't do much to support the idea that it is. The idea that the SC ruled that DAPA was unconstitutional is incorrect, as your own link says it ended in a 4-4 tie vote, and was essentially kicked back down to the lower courts. A tie vote is not a vote that something is unconstitutional.
Furthermore, as the link you provided notes, DAPA is not DACA.
It says the following "First, the outcome in U.S. v Texas has no direct impact on the original DACA program, which was implemented in August 2012...DACA has survived several legal challenges, including one brought by a group of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers and another by Maricopa County, Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Both were dismissed in federal court for lack of standing. "
So to summarize, a tie vote in the SC is not a vote that DAPA is unconstitutional, and it's certainly not evidence that a seperate piece of legislation is unconstitutional.
I never said you said that he was doing something illegal. We agree its in his power to undo a non binding non law done through executive fiat, through executive fiat.
It was 4-4 because there was an empty seat, DAPA surely would have been 5-4 and DACA would have end up being 5-4 had it gone to SCOTUS. And the lower court ruled it unconstitutional, so yes, its unconstitutional regardless of the semantics of SCOTUS tie vs lower court. A tie means its lower court ruling stands which is unconstitutional. Through precident of DAPA ruling, it might not even had made it that far and stayed in a lower federal court.
I never said the link was for DACA, I stated specifically numerous times it was DAPA, which is a similar program that was ruled unconstitutional.
So to summarize, DAPA was ruled unconstitutional and still is. And since the program is very similar to DACA with a 5-4 majority on the SCOTUS, if DACA had gone to SCOTUS which it was going to, which is why POTUS acted today, it surely would have been ruled unconstitutional which would have been an even bigger blow to Obama and liberals. Trump actually did dreamers and parents of dreams a favor today. Because it was headed to court.
So a DACA decision was going to the Supreme Court? I wasn't aware. Do you know when it was scheduled to be heard by them?
Still, even if DAPA was uncontitutional, that doesn't really mean DACA would have been. Very minor difference could have made all the difference. We know some SC justices can make their decisions on seemingly very small things. But I guess we'll never know now.
Either way, I hope congress acts. I do think it's wrong to punish these people. They were brought here by their parents as children, they've built relationships and lives here, and this is the only home they know.
Originally posted by BackFire
So a DACA decision was going to the Supreme Court? I wasn't aware. Do you know when it was scheduled to be heard by them?Still, even if DAPA was uncontitutional, that doesn't really mean DACA would have been. Very minor difference could have made all the difference. We know some SC justices can make their decisions on seemingly very small things. But I guess we'll never know now.
Either way, I hope congress acts. I do think it's wrong to punish these people. They were brought here by their parents as children, they've built relationships and lives here, and this is the only home they know.
Cute, you know what I am talking about here, I am talking about DACA
"Through precident of DAPA ruling, it might not even had made it that far and stayed in a lower federal court."
By Gods, as if we never talk about anything hypothetical here.
Originally posted by Sable
Cute, you know what I am talking about here, I am talking about DACA"Through precident of DAPA ruling, it might not even had made it that far and stayed in a lower federal court."
By Gods, as if we never talk about anything hypothetical here.
Hm? I wasn't trying to be cute. I thought you said that DACA was heading towards the SC. If you didn't, then my bad.
It's possible that a SC DAPA ruling would affect future DACA court rulings. But since the ruling was a tie I don't believe that would be enough to really set any precedent for DACA.
Originally posted by Sable
Again its all hypothetical, but I have my doubts it would have made to the SC and if it did, I don't see Gorush siding with Ginsberg.
I don't either. But that doesn't mean one of the more moderate conservative justices couldn't vote different than they did on DAPA. If DACA is just slightly different or worded differently, then it's possible. Stranger things have happened. Some SC justices to seem to take pride in being unpredictable at times.
I agree a bit, but the 4-4 kinda says it all. Is not hard to imagine that being a 5-4 majority decision considering it was 4-4 and seeing the way Roberts voted kinda says it all. If Scalia had been there it would have been 5-4 and we both know it. Gorsuch would be a heart beat away from the same decision as Scalia.
Originally posted by Sable
I feel like DACA was like Obama giving someone a stolen car. And Tump is the sheriff who's saying pull over, let's take this back to the dealer and do it the right way.
“Here at Planned Parenthood, we firmly believe that every person has the right to live, work, and raise a family freely and without the threat of deportation or separation,” -CEO of PP commenting about Trump and DACA
Not joking lol.
Trump tweeted a bit ago that if congress fails to act that he will revisit the issue.