Kingdom Come Captain Marvel Vs WWH

I still maintain that Captain Marvel had reverted back to his mortal/Billy form when the bomb actually detonated. It was shown a few pages prior that if the object he "Shazam'ed" was TOUCHING him as the lightning struck, it would revert him back into Billy as a result.

Here he 'spam-Shazams' Superman with lightning, and is still in his God/Marvel form:

But when Superman grabs him just as the lightning strikes, *poof*, he reverts back into Billy:

This is important because when he 'triple-Shazam'ed' the bomb, he was TOUCHING it:

...So the same pre-established rule would have logically applied: he simultaneously reverted back into Billy just as the lightning strikes hit the bomb -- ergo he was mortal when it detonated.

Not only is this a completely logical assertion(I really don't know how it can be viewed any other way, tbh), but it also makes the most sense. I mean, Captain Marvel was shown and described as Superman's physical equal in EVERY way... Yet he gets vaped/atomized by an explosion that Supes essentially tanked? No way... He was mortal/Billy.

...IMHO. 🙂

I thought Superman HELD Marvel in place, which is why he reverted that time, not because he was conducting the lightning.

Man this is sad. Even a B-Lister like Wonder Man has survived a nuke to the face and wasn't even KOed. Serious question, has Captain Marvel beaten anyone worth mentioning in a FAIR fight?

All we see is Supes grab ahold of him just before the lightning struck. When the smoke clears, Marvel has reverted back into Billy.

As you said, Marv certainly wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed -- he was just standing there spamming Superman with lightning, and almost certainly never anticipated Supes grabbing him.

...So yes, I think he was definitely part of a conductive loop that reverted him back into Billy. Intelligence notwithstanding, that was pretty much his only weakness.

CM would have taken that blast. It was Billy who got caught in the blast.

Originally posted by Galan007
I still maintain that Captain Marvel had reverted back to his mortal/Billy form when the bomb actually detonated. It was shown a few pages prior that if the object he "Shazam'ed" was TOUCHING him as the lightning struck, it would revert him back into Billy as a result.

Here he 'spam-Shazams' Superman with lightning, and is still in his God/Marvel form:

But when Superman grabs him just as the lightning strikes, *poof*, he reverts back into Billy:

This is important because when he 'triple-Shazam'ed' the bomb, he was TOUCHING it:

...So the same pre-established rule would have logically applied: he simultaneously reverted back into Billy just as the lightning strikes hit the bomb -- ergo he was mortal when it detonated.

Not only is this a completely logical assertion(I really don't know how it can be viewed any other way, tbh), but it also makes the most sense. I mean, Captain Marvel was shown and described as Superman's physical equal in EVERY way... Yet he gets vaped/atomized by an explosion that Supes essentially tanked? No way... He was mortal/Billy.

...IMHO. 🙂

Good post.

Originally posted by Galan007
All we see is Supes grab ahold of him just before the lightning struck. When the smoke clears, Marvel has reverted back into Billy.

As you said, Marv certainly wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed -- he was just standing there spamming Superman with lightning, and almost certainly never anticipated Supes grabbing him.

...So yes, I think he was definitely part of a conductive loop that reverted him back into Billy. Intelligence notwithstanding, that was pretty much his only weakness.

I thought this as well, at first (see posts with Celey).

However, the way Superman is holding Billy, preventing him from pulling away - when in the panel before, it shows him standing over Superman - plus the art showing the bolt hitting between them (does it hit Billy's arm? Supes? Unclear).

Hence my question about his cape. Does it become totally independent of Billy once separated from him?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
[b]Are YOU actually challenging him to a Battlezone match? [/B]

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought this as well, at first (see posts with Celey).

However, the way Superman is holding Billy, preventing him from pulling away - when in the panel before, it shows him standing over Superman - plus the art showing the bolt hitting between them (does it hit Billy's arm? Supes? Unclear).

Hence my question about his cape. Does it become totally independent of Billy once separated from him?

As for the cape: yeah, on E22 it must be independent from Marv once removed from his person... Not to mention that Ross obviously intended to keep the cape around for symbolical purposes, so it was going to endure no matter what. /shrug

I don't see the point in taking the bolts in his person. If he was really intent on blowing up a doomsday bomb, it's more logical to have his bolts hit the weapon directly.

Also to me Supes did hold him in place for however brief it was... Basically to prevent him from replicating his trick.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I don't see the point in taking the bolts in his person. If he was really intent on blowing up a doomsday bomb, it's more logical to have his bolts hit the weapon directly.

...Aside from that, Supes basically guilted Billy into making the suicide play. He's a dick like that. 😛

Doesn't matter. Whatever DS thinks, ill be on the opposite side.

My man.

Did anyone ever think of asking alex ross to clarify what happened?

It felt like to me he died in marvel form cuz of the cape.

But its possible that the final bolt that busted through the nuke's forcefield only did so after the explosion singed off a piece of his cape, and a microsecond after that he turned back to billy, after his scrap of cape was already seperated from his marvel costume.

No that cape was torn off by Supes.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
[b]Superman by the time of KINGDOM COME had absorbed enough solar radiation to become IMMUNE to kryptonite! He was clearly stronger than his younger depictions. When it was shown that KC Superman is not the older version of Post Crisis Superman his demonstration of superior strength was definitively shown both by feats of strength and combat.

Captain Marvel in KINGDOME COME was depicted as a being who rivaled KC Superman in ALL aspects of strength, speed, endurance and invulnerability.

Any being who can go toe to toe with KC Superman ANNIHILATES World War Hulk! [/B]

Kingdoms Come Superman WAS an older Post Crisis Superman. Explicitly shown in the Kingdom. Earth 22 Superman IS NOT Kingdom Come Superman, whose alternate future DCU became a tributary in the Hypertimestream.

Where? He didn't do anything mainstream Supra has done. Earth 22 Superman is NOT the Superman from Kingdoms Come. Earth 22 was created at the end of 52 by Mister Mind.

Nope. That isn't Kingdoms Come Superman. Further per the expanded novelization Caps magic k nature caused Superman fits. But his magic k weakness is a manifestation of his lack of understanding of magic k. Once he grasped that he was then able to counter Cap.

Earthh 22 has no bearing here. Entirely separate reality.

Originally posted by JBL
Dude, I could end this nonsense about superman in one video at the cost of making 3 friends very mad but their privacy and friendship is FAR more important than a comic book site. But I could easily prove that superman has NEVER overpowered CM, BA, DD or any equal and he was going all out. Those mental blocks are in place to keep him from hurting FAR weaker people, NOT the likes of CM, BA,DD etc. One minute he had to be taught by mongul Jr to drop mental blocks, the next Lois makes him do it, then the next he does it on his own. All the while the character HIMSELF had admitted he's going all out. Very easy battlezone to win.

So you're deliberately lying now.

Originally posted by panthergod
So you're deliberately lying now.