Loras Tyrell vs Ned Stark

Started by juggerman5 pages

Originally posted by Ursumeles
👆
IIRC, the creators stated Jaime was toying with him anyway.
Source?

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/jaime-lannister-vs-the-hound-tv-show-versions-675337/?page=2 #70
Wasn't as conclusive as I thought, but I still think it's pretgy clear.

Lol, seems like they were other comments in missed(couldn't watch the video) and the dude ignored.
Nvm then, seems like Ned is really ~ Jaime. Great Arthur wank lol

Can you post the video here? I can read the thread but the video isn't coming up for some reason

Sorry, I can't link it.
Anyway, they basically said that Ned is a famous warrior, and Jaime wants to test his meddle, and and see "who's the better man".
But the possibly most important part is "They're pretty evenly matched, and it's anyone's guess who would've won [if it wasn't interrupted].

As much as I hate to admit it, it seems like Ned is close to Jaime. I mean,the "evenly matched" could refer to the part where Jaime wasn't serious, but the part where it is said "if the fight wasn't interrupted" speaks otherwise imo.

The guy that posted the video seems to think the comments were made to indicate that Jaime was toying with Ned and only became serious in the latter end of the fight but we never saw him go all out. Unfortunately I can't see the video so I dunno what to think

Originally posted by juggerman
The guy that posted the video seems to think the comments were made to indicate that Jaime was toying with Ned and only became serious in the latter end of the fight but we never saw him go all out. Unfortunately I can't see the video so I dunno what to think

Ned wasnt going all out.

Why would he try to kill Jaime?

It was more of a "dont mess with me" type of thing.

Ned participated in the wars of Robert's rebellion. So experiencewise Ned has the edge.

Plus Ned is a humble man. He is better than what he seems.

Jaime is too cocky. Ned would have punished him for that.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

Why would he try to kill Jaime?

Because the creators said he did? Because Jaime just killed his friend?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ned wasnt going all out.

Why would he try to kill Jaime?

It was more of a "dont mess with me" type of thing.

Ned participated in the wars of Robert's rebellion. So experiencewise Ned has the edge.

Plus Ned is a humble man. He is better than what he seems.

Jaime is too cocky. Ned would have punished him for that.

Prove it

Nope. Jaime just had all his men killed and personally killed Jory in front of Ned. Why would Ned be holding back?

He did, 17 years ago. Hardly points to him being at the top of his game

Being humble doesn't really translate to sword fights

Jaime is very cocky but it's well earned

Also, Jaime fought in the Greyjoy rebellion. G
He has certainly enough experience.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Also, Jaime fought in the Greyjoy rebellion. G
He has certainly enough experience.

He was at the Siege of Pyke cutting down Greyjoys like they were nothing. Listen to Euron's telling and you'd believe Jaime was the greatest swordsman that ever lived

Originally posted by juggerman
This whole exchange proves Jaime was not trying to kill Ned as his whole goal was to save his brother. Ned pointed out that if he dies Tyrion dies too.

good call, however he ordered his men to take him alive, which meant that at the moment he did not plan on fighting ned. once they crossed swords, jamie was out to kill ned, which the later dialogue with tywin supports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15-op9n7FO8

notice 1:15 how he steps back, and avoids the fight until confronted by jory. clearly he did not plan on ned/jory overcoming his guards and confronting him directly, so you can't really apply his previous decision to a drastically altered situation.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
once they crossed swords, jamie was out to kill ned, which the later dialogue with tywin supports.


No, it really doesn't. Both Ned & Jaime knew that Tyrion (Jaime's beloved brother) dies when he kills Ned. And what should he have said to Tywin (the one person Jaime fears)? "I wanted to save my brother - you know, the disgrace to our family, the dude that you blame for the death of your beloved wife? Yeah, that one."
And as for "he didn't wanted to fight Ned". After Jory died, Jaime was walking towards Ned and challenged him. He could've just told his 10 men to capture him lol.
The creators even stated that he wanted to test Ned & see how good he is.

Originally posted by Ursumeles

The creators even stated that he wanted to test Ned & see how good he is.
source?

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/jaime-lannister-vs-the-hound-tv-show-versions-675337/?page=2 #70

Ned is a famous warrior; Jaime sees him as natural opponent. He just wants to get him out there, on the field, so that they can test each others meddle and see who's the better man.

I might be misinterpreting "meddle", but I see no reason why Jaime would try to kill Jaime - at least not until they crossed sword, as Jaime didn't looked like he struggled in the slightest.

the video you're sourcing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=235&v=zK--_53sd3w

3:55

attacking ned stark in the streets of king's landing is one of the first steps you would take on the road to declaring warfare.

when the fight starts to happen, jaime realizes that when ned fights a man for real, he fights a man for real, and jaime starts to realize that his life is in danger here, and it becomes a fight to the death


i don't feel like transcribing the whole scene, but according to d&d, jaime was testing at first, but in the end it was a fight to the death and he intended to kill or be killed. i think that solves that part of the debate. 👆

later in the comments, he flatout says that they were evenly matched and it was anyone's guess who would win. so that's another aspect of the argument we can lay to rest. ned and jamie are pretty much equals.

The show creators are very bad at showing how good Jaime is supposed to be; He'd shit kick Ned in the novels.

He is, per George himself, the greatest swordsman in the world during his time. The show does not convey that well, at all.

i agree that novel jamie was superior. grrm put him over most swordsman, at least in character dialogue concerning him and in jaime's personal reflections on who is better than who. with that said, i might be so bold as to argue that book loras could match or perhaps even defeat jamie in a duel.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
the video you're sourcing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=235&v=zK--_53sd3w

3:55

i don't feel like transcribing the whole scene, but according to d&d, jaime was testing at first, but in the end it was a fight to the death and he intended to kill or be killed. i think that solves that part of the debate. 👆


We don't know when the fight got serious, though. Like I said - Jaime only started to struggle as they crossed swords.
later in the comments, he flatout says that they were evenly matched and it was anyone's guess who would win. so that's another aspect of the argument we can lay to rest. ned and jamie are pretty much equals.

I know what they said. But fighting evenly =/= being equal, and it is very possible that Ned only fought evenly with a toying Jaime.
Yeah, the commentary suggests that they are very close to each other, but it doesn't says that Jaime wanted to kill Ned the whole time.

you're shifting the goal posts in a way which proves nothing for the topic. d&d clearly stated that ned was equal to jamie and that regardless of his intentions, it quickly became a fight to the death. so no, jamie did not hold back in the end, and thus him and ned were even. so we saw a clear demonstration of their abilities, without anyone 'holding back'. you really cant argue around those points.