Wonder Woman Vs Flash

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
This is the one I really want most answered.

Wonder Woman versus Doom.

Note that this BEFORE Wonder Woman endures that near the sun to the Earth haymaker by Superman in Sacrifice.

Note that she takes all these punches while blinded.

Note that some of these are hard enough to launch her literally hundreds or even thousands of miles away to other countries.

Notice that this is Zoom, who, if I remember correctly, took on several Flashes correctly.

And note with all that who comes out on top:

Source: Wonder Woman Volume 2. #214 or thereabouts ...

So wait, previously you said that she was unable to react to the attack from behind because she couldn't see.

Now, as I predicted, you argue that with Zoom, she also cannot see - yet seems to do fine?

You should also pay attention to your own scans. Previously, you mentioned hand bruising against DS. Did you not see the IMP? Did you not read WW's statement where he heals as fast as he does everything else?

Moreover, as Diana says, he's not truly faster than her.

Wally, however, is.

But I like how we're back to ABC logic, again. Adding Zoom to White Martians, Amazo, Deathstroke, Supergirl....it's like we're using the whole of DC, just not the characters mentioned in the thread!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆

I was waiting for these scans.

Here, WW realises that they are mollycoddling her:

And once again....Batman saves the day. So apparently she can 'adapt to Wally's speed' and 'sense air pressure'....but not Batman, lol.

So IF we take this fight as gospel.....if a punch from the human level Batman pretty much incapacitates her, what would one IMP do???

My point was that when both of them were in direct comparison with each other, Flash did like 10 actions, when WW didn't even do 1.

I didn't use a Lantern. It was to show that in the time it took Lantern's light to travel a tiny distance, Wally did loads of stuff, whilst WW was unable to react.

For carver. You were missing a page from your scans, the page where WW realises they're holding back. But its OK.

Once the League stops holding back, BATMAN gets the drop on her. ABC logic is fun!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
@riv : thanks, it's appreciated.

Flash doesn't get hit unless he wants to be.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash doesn't get hit unless he wants to be.

Despite how many times he is hit even he doesn't want to be ?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash doesn't get hit unless he wants to be.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Despite how many times he is hit even he doesn't want to be ?

LMFAO 😆

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Despite how many times he is hit even he doesn't want to be ?

🙂 Shhhh am quoting Carver's scan with Amazo. It's a trap!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Previously, you mentioned hand bruising against DS.

Indeed. That happened just before that scene where Slade trips Flash into a REAL brick wall.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Did you not see the IMP? Did you not read WW's statement where he heals as fast as he does everything else?

Yes, but what exactly does that MEAN if Flash is fighting an opponent with Diana's physical strength and prowess.

Flash is laid out for a notable time here, for instance, as J'onn makes mention of:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

I like how we're back to ABC logic, again. Adding Zoom to White Martians, Amazo, Deathstroke, Supergirl....it's like we're using the whole of DC, just not the characters mentioned in the thread!

Problem is you're calling "ABC" what is normally done anytime we have Marvel versus DC or any 2 combatants who don't have much of a fight history to examine.

And then trying to disguise "Flash would win in a race!" material as the only acceptable evidence for fight victory. We already know who wins a head-to-head race between the two. But if merely being faster was enough to guarantee victory, Flash would have no losses on his record. He does have losses on his record. And to people a whole lot slower and weaker than Diana.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So wait, previously you said that she was unable to react to the attack from behind because she couldn't see.

Now, as I predicted, you argue that with Zoom, she also cannot see - yet seems to do fine?

Even in the real world of fighters and martial artists, there's often a vast difference between handling an attack when you know you're actually in a fight with someone, and reacting to an assault COMPLETELY unprepared.

Under such conditions, even things you normally shrug off can be devastating.

The following is a good illustration of this, and if one day YouTube takes this vid down, just Google "Richard Grant" boxer.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=anh65MIl9xw

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

In character he's not harming his friend.

He knows her. He knows her skills. Why would he try and fight ...?

Originally posted by carver9
I just don't see these fights like this on KMC. When we make matches, I thought they fight in character but at the same time, they are trying to take each other out. Not using the friend factor as a set back. If that was the case, why would they even fight in the first place if we are playing the friend card. They could just stand there and end this in a stalemate.

Originally posted by riv6672

Now i guess we have the friend card?

Nice ...

mmm

👆

I can dig it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
🙂 Shhhh am quoting Carver's scan with Amazo. It's a trap!

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Problem is you're calling "ABC" what is normally done anytime we have Marvel versus DC or any 2 combatants who don't have much of a fight history to examine.

And then trying to disguise "Flash would win in a race!" material as the only acceptable evidence for fight victory. We already know who wins a head-to-head race between the two. But if merely being faster was enough to guarantee victory, Flash would have no losses on his record. He does have losses on his record. And to people a whole lot slower and weaker than Diana.

And when they HAVE tangled, he was beating WW pretty handily, until Starro messed up. Speed, in this case, was what was giving him the winning edge. Starros predictability, was his losing edge. Take that away, and well....

The other time a pre 52 WW and Wally have tangled, he kicked her in the head and she was KOd. Again, with his speed.

Using their entanglements with other characters, like I said, merely makes Batman the greatest hero in DC....as we've seen with Carvers scans. She knew full well she was in a fight with Bruce, and he, with his human speed and strength, hurt her pretty well.

I note that Deathstroke also drew blood with HIS strength and speed.

That's only if we go the lowball and PIS route, though, which I don't use unless the other side starts.

So we do have direct head to head confrontation. The scale of his reflex AND travel speed is above WW. I posted the Terra Incognito scans with Kyle, to show the differences between them. He was able to scan 500,000 people, find two, pick them up, carry them, and place them in harms way....all in a picosecond. Whilst she hardly even moved a muscle doing anything (not just talking about moving out of harm's way, although your and carvers scans show she doesn't need her eyes.....so why didn't she react??)

So it's not just travel speed. Like WW notes (thanks for the scan!) He does everything fast. He fights at those speeds as well.

In a forum fight, as people have helpfully pointed out, where they're not messing about and fighting to the best (so no 'oh no, you're my friend, I must Molly coddle you!!!!) Flash will be fighting seriously.

Which would make him an indistinct blur to her.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And when they HAVE tangled, he was beating WW pretty handily, until Starro messed up. Speed, in this case, was what was giving him the winning edge. Starros predictability, was his losing edge. Take that away, and well....

Take that away and you have Wonder Woman versus Zoom, shown earlier.

And with the exception of a Flash choice to use speed steal, you need to tell me why Flash should be expected to fare any better.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

The Brave and the Bold scan still doesn't show much, especially as we know Flash has MUCH better evacuation feats ...

[Also, the Justice League versus Starro issue where Wonder Woman fights a possessed Flash] specifically says that WW doesn't have to be fast - just predict where STARRO was going to attack.

So yeah, she didn't use speed.

If Wonder Woman does that well WITHOUT speed, as you claim it above, how well would she actually do WITH it?

But perhaps you're just being lax with language here ...?

Regardless, it probably is a good idea to establish Wondy is not limited to Hulk versus Thor level speed. Might be a good idea to start with arguably the most infamous once-in-awhile talked about feat, "deflecting the Shattered God".

What in the world is a "Shattered God"?

Until this month, I actually didn't know myself. Turns out it's a bastardized translation of the Biblical Judeo-Christian God, making me wonder the religious background of the Wonder Woman writer at that time.

This story, Wonder Woman #193 and 194, Volume 2, if memory serves,
features SG as a sort of Big Bang that exploded outward as a shower of light crystals at the beginning of creation, and, at the time of that arc's then telling, returns back to Earth. Or tries to. The critical thing about the SG affair is that Wonder Woman must prevent this being from reforming, else it means the end.
Of everything. And it's told as if even one of those many many light crystals reaches its destination, SG succeeds, so Wondy must parry them all. At least by fans on various forums. Usually ones that give nothing to corroborate what I just related. Or broken links. On what is touted as one of her greatest speed feats.
So, let's correct that:

Source: Wonder Woman #193, Volume 2

This had to be separated into 2 posts.

If anyone's wondering why, that's because KMC only allows 10 images, which even includes smilies, to be posted in one post.

If you try to exceed that, even with a tiny winky or thumbs up signal or something of the like, you get the following error message:

On the other hand, since this was effectively a 2 part story, the division is a surprisingly appropriate one.

Anyway, the actual feat termed "Shattered God" by Wonder Woman fans:

Source: Wonder Woman #194, Volume 2

It's easy to overlook some things because of the rushed or compressed way DC often presents them.

People wonder if Wonder Woman could take an i.m.p. for instance.
But Zoom actually treated Wonder Woman to a series of such strikes, not just one, overlooked till now in just about every thread I've ever examined.

Wondy has, in truth, a mini-world tour given her by Zoom's fists and feet, doubtless so Rucka could set the precedent for damage soak Diana would need to survive what was to come in the Sacrifice arc a few issues later

Priscilla Rich's Home, USA
(note that Priscilla Rich, the first Cheetah, is the 84 year old Diana asks about in the last panel, NOT the hapless Themysciran woman Zoom hit with 200 punches, shown when I first posted Diana versus Zoom)

Eiffel Tower, Paris, France

Pyramids of Giza, Egypt

Great Wall of China

Themyscira, Mediterranean Sea, presumably somewhere near Greece

Why don't you show the scan of WALLY punching WW?

One punch pretty much laid her out. And she admitted he could have laid millions, or Hundreds of millions, of the same on her over the course of the night.

Hence my point about ABC logic, which you're (willfully?) ignoring.

This thread is Wally vs WW. Not Zoom,not Shattered Gods, not White Martians, not Amazo, not Superman, not Supergirl,not Deathstrokes.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why don't you show the scan of WALLY punching WW?

One punch pretty much laid her out. And she admitted he could have laid millions, or Hundreds of millions, of the same on her over the course of the night.

Hence my point about ABC logic, which you're (willfully?) ignoring.

This thread is Wally vs WW. Not Zoom,not Shattered Gods, not White Martians, not Amazo, not Superman, not Supergirl,not Deathstrokes.....

I don't show the scan of Wally punching Wondy because you've shown it at least twice now.
Moreover, you know where the story is from and presumably have the book.
I do not. As I told you before.
Frankly, I would appreciate the title and issue number of that book if you have it.
It would help make this thread a good reference source for people.

I do not know whether that punch was the first, 2nd, or 300th Diana had taken.
You claim it nearly laid her out. But you claim a lot of things, and imply still more, with the most outrageous implication being that Wondy could not defend against a bolt from Green Lantern if she were in actual fight mode. Diana doesn't look in anymore trouble against Flash than she did against Zoom. Her tone isn't one of desperation, merely resignation that it's going to take some work and time and pain "it's going to be a long night ..."

The rest of your complaints have been addressed as well.
Review this thread please.

Again, my point was that in one picosecond, WE hardly moved a muscle.

In one picosecond, Wally scanned 500000 people, found 2, picked them up, carried them, then threw them into harms way.

Is any of that a claim? No.

Is any of that implied? No.

Neither have my complaints been addressed, as you assert.

I claim the use of Deathstroke is PIS.

That ABC logic is a useless endeavour, when we have WE herself comparing A to C.

One of my very first points was that all ABC logic would show, was that Batman was the fastest, strongest, greatest Leaguer.

Andyou're proving me right.

Here's Batman taking far more punches than WW.

I posted that scan once before, of Wally punching WW. Strangely, you have no problem posting the same Deathstroke scan twice yourself, or of Zoom.....