Marka Ragnos vs. Emperor Palpatine

Originally posted by AncientPower
I am not arguing that there isn't some context, but I'm also struggling to believe that Sidious of all Sith would be taken so easily off-guard. Especially given that he knows full well how dangerous they are.

Sidious has been cheapshotted a great deal of times, lmfao. I mean, just look at his death at the hands of Vader.
The fact that a hindered, near-death DE Sidious managed to ward off these same spirits and that Droga was enough aid to fend them off suggests there was certainly some added context of how the spirits did it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If you can name any other 'ancient' Sith spirits who were actively on Korriban at this time, besides Marka Ragnos, and more powerful than he is, then I'd agree. I just find it exceedingly coincidental that he manages to comment on that exact part of the text with that event. (It's never mentioned that he went there more than twice by DE.)

He doesn't comment on that part of the text, and I also don't really need to name any Sith because it's equally [non]valid that said Sith would be in place of Ragnos, leading the Spirits. The ones we see in DE -- implied to be the same ones as before -- don't feature Marka in them.

Originally posted by MythLord
Sidious has been cheapshotted a great deal of times, lmfao. I mean, just look at his death at the hands of Vader.

Originally posted by MythLord
The fact that a hindered, near-death DE Sidious managed to ward off these same spirits and that Droga was enough aid to fend them off suggests there was certainly some added context of how the spirits did it.

Why they assaulted him? Because Palpatine somehow offended them.

Also, where is the evidence that the spirits attempted to kill Palpatine as of Dark Empire, again? I didn't come across such evidence in my readings.

When Palpatine (DE) communed with the spirits on Korriban, they showed him the vision of Leia Solo's child. He was the key to his survival.

The text says that the Spirits pressed upon Palpatine in Empires End, though when I read it I interpreted it that metaphorically not that they literally attacked him or anything.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nothing implies that the spirits cheap-shotted Palpatine.

It would honestly only make sense if they did. Like I said, the circumstances are unclear.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nothing implies that the spirits attempted to kill Droga. They only assaulted Palpatine per the description.

Why they assaulted him? Because Palpatine somehow offended them.

Yes, I'm sure Droga going in lightsaber-blazing to protect his master would definitely not cause the spirits to assault him or anything...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, where is the evidence that the spirits attempted to kill Palpatine as of Dark Empire, again? I didn't come across such evidence in my readings.

When Palpatine (DE) communed with the spirits on Korriban, they showed him the vision of Leia Solo's child. He was the key to his survival.

They were pressing upon him in Empire's End, trying to break him and he ended up warding them off.

Yeah, not sure what the fuss is about. We don't know:
[List]
[*]What Palpatine's condition was
[*]How many spirits there were
[*]How long the fight lasted
[*]...and so on.
[/list]
And we certainly don't see any indication of any "stomping" anywhere. And indeed, if Jeng Droga is enough to rescue Palpatine there, it evokes skepticism regarding the legitimacy of the ancient Sith's newly-argued standing next to the Emperor, at least on an individual level. Collectively, sure, they can pose a threat, as the above clearly indicates, but once more, we don't know how many spirits there were, nor do we know how long the fight lasted, etc. It's for all intents and purposes, unquantifiable.

Not to mention in Empire's End, Palpatine didn't seem very concerned about dying when he revisited the Valley of the Dark Lords:

As soon as he enters, the spirits start pressing on him, and Sheev from the looks of things doesn't give two shits. He starts ordering them around while far from peak condition and they acquiesce to his wishes. The impression I get is that even a handful of these spirits can't do jack to a half-dead Sheev who could barely use his Force abilities lest he further the necrosis and decay of his flesh. Not much else that needs to be said, tbh.

Also, there were apparently thousands of spirits on Korriban whose sole desire was to attack intruders like Palpatine.

Like many cultures, the Sith buried slaves, courtiers, and priests with their honored dead. Like many such belief systems, however, the ancient Sith had firsthand knowledge that the dark side would keep the souls of those crypt keepers trapped with their dead masters. Driven by hatred of those who entombed them and the madness that is existence in the dark side, the relatively weak spirits of thousands of lesser Sith act as protectors for the remains of their superiors.

Unable to exert enough strength to possess the living, these guardian spirits animate the fleshless corpses of various tomb robbers and space pirates that have unintentionally made Korriban their final resting place. A guardian spirit looks for all the world like a walking skeleton.

Millennia of madness in the dark side drive the possessing spirit insane. Therefore, they will not, and cannot, behave as sentient beings. They attack without mercy until they are physically destroyed. Even then, the guardian spirit may jump to another skeleton and rise again. Whatever they may once have been, these guardians now exist my as mindless walking dead, hulking, shambling things that must be destroyed to remove the taint of evil.

Walking dead guardian spirits are little more than shuffling bags of bones animated and filled with malicious intent by the dark side. They are immune to disease, the effects of cold, and the vacuum of space. The spirit energy that drives them is no longer sentient or self-aware, so it is not as susceptible to Force mental abilities. Indeed, they simply continue to obey the last command they received in life by protecting the necropolis from intruders.

The Dark Side Sourcebook

So Palpatine fended off thousands of lesser Sith spirits and an unknown number of greater spirits at once, presumably killed most of them given their lack of appearance upon his second trip to the Valley, and in a horrible condition is able to ward off several of the strongest ones who had held dominion for centuries in their heyday.

That's a pretty great feat for Sheev 👆

Just raised Sidious. Thx. 👆

Good for Droga really.

Not at all. A lot better for Sidious. Seems this new attempt backfired.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This might be my all-time greatest reveal.

Ironic, but it's true. For once you did something productive with your life and ennobled Sheev in the eyes of this boards' members by exhorting me to do some affixed inquiry. Your benefaction to Sheevism has been most effiacacious 👆

Nice Azronger.

It is confirmed. Sheev can not army bust.

Originally posted by ziggtard
It is confirmed. Sheev can not army bust.

Lawl, a petty loss. Besides, this is ANH Sheev, a decade before DE.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Good for Droga really.

Droga was also personally trained and had his powers amped by Sheev. So if one wishes to see this as a feat for Droga, it's ineluctably a feat for Sheev too, no matter which way you spin it.

Azronger is The true successor to Tempest.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Azronger is The true successor to Tempest.

Yup. Tempest proclaimed me his inheritor a while back. I will be the new Grand Sheevite after him.

So Sidious failed where the Exile, Exar Kun and others have succeeded? Damn, pretty terrible for the most powerful Sith of all-time.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, Droga's rescue of Sheev has been public knowledge since the Antediluvian days. It was referenced again in Book of Sith.

It's just that no one really cared. As Myth pointed out, the details are unknown.

An ironic piece of trivia: the authors of both sources would later go on to call Palpatine the most powerful Sith Lord ever in Who's Who: imperial Grand Admirals and multiple times in the Book of Sith endnotes.

Oh, mi lord. Your presence gives me new found strength in our revered master, Sheev Palpatine, blessed his name be, thank you. Help us rid ourselves of this Ragnos insurrectionists.

Originally posted by Azronger
Yup. Tempest proclaimed me his inheritor a while back. I will be the new Grand Sheevite after him.