Originally posted by Freedon NaddIsn't he a Dark Side Adept?
Didn't Declann's impressive, Force-enhanced skills as a TIE pilot brought him to the attention of Emperor Palpatine's agents?
IIRC, he was taken to Dromund Kaas - where he was educated in the ways of the dark side by the Prophets of the Dark Side.
Also yes, to all of that.
Originally posted by ZenwolfWhere was it explicitly stated that Declann was using BM at Endor? Because it definitely wasn't stated in the 'Who's Who' article people have cited -- that article is ambiguous at best.
Well that's because Nail sensed Palpatine's demise, he cut his Battle Meditation to go and check, but on his way the DS exploded.
Originally posted by ZenwolfIt is indeed a contradiction.
So really, there isn't any contradiction.But still, it's not like Palpatine couldn't do it anyway.
The RotJ novelization --a higher form of canon-- states that when Palpatine(and Palpatine alone) died, the fleet crumbled as a direct corollary.
"For the first time, the Death Star rocked. The collision with the exploding destroyer was only the beginning, leading to various systems breakdowns, which led to reactor meltdowns, which led to personnel panic, abandonment of posts, further malfunctions, and general chaos [...] For the Emperor was dead. The central, powerful evil that had been the cohesive force to the Empire was gone; and when the dark side was this diffused, this nondirected - this was simply where it led.
Confusion.
Desperation.
Damp fear."
And as mentioned: this fact was later corroborated by Thrawn in Heir to the Empire, so yeah.
That said, IF an explicit quote for Declann exists, it is superseded by higher canonicity anyway.
Where was it stated that Palpatine used Battle Meditation, really?
That fragment merely says that Palpatine's death was the downfall of his empire. That's all. And rightfully so.
Thrawn's words were there to introduce the notion of what Battle Meditation is. That doesn't mean it happened that way.
Palpatine was a lot focused on Luke and Vader and couldn't afford to use Battle Meditation because his attention was directed towards someone else.
Originally posted by Galan007
Where was it explicitly stated that Declann was using BM at Endor? Because it definitely wasn't stated in the 'Who's Who' article people have cited -- that article is ambiguous at best.It is indeed a contradiction.
The RotJ novelization --a higher form of canon-- states that when Palpatine(and Palpatine alone) died, the fleet crumbled as a direct corollary.
"For the first time, the Death Star rocked. The collision with the exploding destroyer was only the beginning, leading to various systems breakdowns, which led to reactor meltdowns, which led to personnel panic, abandonment of posts, further malfunctions, and general chaos [...] For the Emperor was dead. The central, powerful evil that had been the cohesive force to the Empire was gone; and when the dark side was this diffused, this nondirected - this was simply where it led.
Confusion.
Desperation.
Damp fear."And as mentioned: this fact was later corroborated by Thrawn in Heir to the Empire, so yeah.
That said, IF an explicit quote for Declann exists, it is superseded by higher canonicity anyway.
Yeah when Palpatine died, Nial had sensed it. He thus broke his concentration with the fleet to go see, this is what caused the fleet to go into disarray.
Palpatine's death still did break the fleet.
I mean it says he can meld the units under his command into a formidable fighting force.
Seems a lot like BM to me.
But even if you don't take it as BM and Nial was still coordinating the fleet from the DS. The death of Palpatine still broke the fleet since Nial left his position which would cause the fleet to go into disarray before regaining control.
Originally posted by ZenwolfThat seems like a bit of a twist to me.
Yeah when Palpatine died, Nial had sensed it. He thus broke his concentration with the fleet to go see, this is what caused the fleet to go into disarray.Palpatine's death still did break the fleet.
I mean it says he can meld the units under his command into a formidable fighting force.
Seems a lot like BM to me.
But even if you don't take it as BM and Nial was still coordinating the fleet from the DS. The death of Palpatine still broke the fleet since Nial left his position which would cause the fleet to go into disarray before regaining control.
Per the RotJ novelization: Palpatine died, and the whole Imperial fleet went into a state of complete disarray as a direct corollary -- HIS presence/power(the proverbial 'glue' that held the fleet together) was no longer there to keep them on-task/in-line... And a few other sources confirm the same basic thing.
Conversely, in a lesser form of canon Declann was ambiguously stated to be "coordinating the Imperial fleet" from aboard to DSII -- but that doesn't necessarily mean he *must* have been using BM to do so. He was, after all, one of four Grand Admirals stationed on the DSII... Helping 'coordinate' its naval forces literally defines his job description(force-sensetive or not.)
Sure, that statement *could* imply that Declann was using Battle Meditation to boost the Imperial fleet, OR it could imply that he was simply doing the job of a Grand Admiral, and helping manage the vast fleet he commanded from a remote location. As an example: Thrawn is able to 'coordinate' the entire 7th Fleet from aboard the Chimaera, but he doesn't need the force to do so. /shrug
That's why I asked if you(or anyone else) knows of a different source that *explicitly* states Declann was using BM to bolster the fleet at Endor -- because the aforementioned excerpt isn't clear either way, tbh.
I mean, even Declann's bio from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia(which was released years AFTER that 'Who's Who' article) doesn't mention anything at all about Declann using BM at the battle of Endor:
srug
Originally posted by Galan007
That seems like a bit of a twist to me.Per the RotJ novelization: Palpatine died, and the whole Imperial fleet went into a state of complete disarray as a direct corollary -- HIS presence/power(the proverbial 'glue' that held the fleet together) was no longer there to keep them on-task/in-line... And a few other sources confirm the same basic thing.
Conversely, in a lesser form of canon Declann was ambiguously stated to be "coordinating the Imperial fleet" from aboard to DSII -- but that doesn't necessarily mean he *must* have been using BM to do so. He was, after all, one of four Grand Admirals stationed on the DSII... Helping 'coordinate' its naval forces literally defines his job description(force-sensetive or not.)
Sure, that statement *could* imply that Declann was using Battle Meditation to boost the Imperial fleet, OR it could imply that he was simply doing the job of a Grand Admiral, and helping manage the vast fleet he commanded from a remote location. As an example: Thrawn is able to 'coordinate' the entire 7th Fleet from aboard the Chimaera, but he doesn't need the force to do so. /shrug
That's why I asked if you(or anyone else) knows of a different source that *explicitly* states Declann was using BM to bolster the fleet at Endor -- because the aforementioned excerpt isn't clear either way, tbh.
I mean, even Declann's bio from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia(which was released years AFTER that 'Who's Who' article) doesn't mention anything at all about Declann using BM at the battle of Endor:
srug
I'll agree it's not exactly clear in whats stated the Nial uses, but the description sounds like BM.
Plus according to the author Dan Wallace, he says this.
Thanks for the feedback on Grand Admiral Declann! He's my favorite too.
As you might have known already, Declann was the only completely original Grand Admiral in the article. We knew that we couldn't have more than 12 (13 when you count the Thrawn/Zaarin swap-out) and 11 had already been named in previous sources. So in our original list, Declann's position was a big question mark.
I liked having a Force-using Grand Admiral, and I'd bet Declann is decent at lightsaber combat. But his primary skill is military strategy, starfighter piloting, and "Jedi battle meditation." It's not apparent in the illustration, but he accessorizes w/ black gloves and a black cloak over his white Grand Admiral's uniform.
- Jedi Council Forum
So he says Declann is a Force using Grand Admiral and has Jedi Battle Meditation.
As for him using it at Endor? Sure, I can agree that there isn't anything stated he did use it at Endor...but it seems a little odd he wouldn't since he can.
But since I can't seem to find it that he used it at Endor, I can drop it. But he does have BM.
Not denying that Declann could use Battle Meditation to some degree. Just looking for explicit evidence of him using that ability at Endor specifically, because "coordinating the Imperial fleet" isn't necessarily indicative of such, imo(as mentioned, that could imply any number of things)... And of course, that is still secondary to other sources of greater canonicity stating that Palpatine's influence alone was holding the fleet together.
I'm starting to think it might be a myth, tbh... Wouldn't be the first time Wookiepedia didn't have their shit straight *cough*Qui-Gon=Mace*cough*
Originally posted by Galan007
Not denying that Declann could use Battle Meditation to some degree. Just looking for explicit evidence of him using that ability at Endor specifically, because "coordinating the Imperial fleet" isn't necessarily indicative of such, imo(as mentioned, that could imply any number of things)... And of course, that is still secondary to other sources of greater canonicity stating that Palpatine's influence alone was holding the fleet together.I'm starting to think it might be a myth, tbh... Wouldn't be the first time Wookiepedia didn't have their shit straight *cough*Qui-Gon=Mace*cough*
I can agree to that I guess, I've looked through every source but can't find mention of any instance akin to Endor and Nial.
It isn't necessarily, but it would be strange he wouldn't be using it if he could. But neither here nor there, so I'm glad to drop it anyway...plus it's a tad bit going off topic here.
But the dark side BM requires the user to break people's wills. And during that Battle on Endor - Palpatine was not focusing his attention on the fleets.
He was a Sith BM user but that doesn't mean he used it during the Endor Battle. All those sources state he knew Sith BM and that his dark will kept the empire whole.
The Empire was not the Endor Battle - you know.
So, he may have used it(definitely) but not during the Endor Battle.