Originally posted by Big GeraldOh so you could be Lord Boo since you want to throw my first name out there. You're very touchy. Anakin is more powerful than Kenobi but he isn't beyond him in direct conflict like Snoke was against Rey or Kylo.
Very well, Ken. I think your statement that "He was more powerful than Kenobi" says it all, but you may continue your debates to your heart's content.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't say it did. I said this new trilogy has the older one beat in every conceivable way. More powerful force users, more powerful weapons of mass destruction, better troops, and better tech.Rey with no training resisted Kylo Ren. She was decimated after Luke's training by Snoke. Kylo with less experience still got the better of Luke. Like it or not but the Jedi aren't the machines you want them to be. Luke even says how they become the stuff of legends but that doesn't make them perfect or unbeatable.
Luke was shown up when she used a saber. When she used one against Snoke he could disarm her at will or force rape her at will. She was nothing to him unlike Luke who marveled at her strength.
Sidious was the one enamored with Luke not the same with Snoke. Snoke wanted him dead. Even Palpatine cucked his own power to Anakin's potential.
Ok so Palpatine at his best was killed by a one handed Vader without the force or a weapon. I agree Palpatine is terrible. It wasn't a quick strike and Palpatine still had his force lightning at his disposal.
1. And, you can only substantiate several of those claims, not more powerful force users.
2. Cute, Leia with no training resisted Vader. Dude she trained with luke for like what 3 days, it takes years. Luke was conflicted, you know how much of an impact that has with your connection to the force.
3.That was mostly PIS, luke used the force to claim his fall meaning he wasn't hat concerned. nor was he trying to harm Her, a force push would of sufficed. Did you Ignore TFA where he liked the sound of her power. Superior characters can be marveled at inferior, characters like Revan with HoT/wrath.
4.This proves what? Nothing.
5. dude Vader was using all of his strength, with the force to throw sidious over the edge, Sidious even saw a future with his death but didn't care. Snoke was a lil ***** who, got deceived and decapitated by his apprentice, pitiful in comparison. Also Sidious was electrocuting Vader while it was happening.
Originally posted by Haschwalth1. Luke already does with his statements regarding Kylo and Rey.
1. And, you can only substantiate several of those claims, not more powerful force users.2. Cute, Leia with no training resisted Vader. Dude she trained with luke for like what 3 days, it takes years. Luke was conflicted, you know how much of an impact that has with your connection to the force.
3.That was mostly PIS, luke used the force to claim his fall meaning he wasn't hat concerned. nor was he trying to harm Her, a force push would of sufficed. Did you Ignore TFA where he liked the sound of her power. Superior characters can be marveled at inferior, characters like Revan with HoT/wrath.
4.This proves what? Nothing.
5. dude Vader was using all of his strength, with the force to throw sidious over the edge, Sidious even saw a future with his death but didn't care. Snoke was a lil ***** who, got deceived and decapitated by his apprentice, pitiful in comparison. Also Sidious was electrocuting Vader while it was happening.
2. Well Vader was like Kylo who couldn't get it done but someone like Snoke definitely could. Thanks for bolstering my point. Luke still had his abilities and still has the choice how to react. He wasn't quick enough to defend himself.
3. Pis is an excuse fanboys use to undermine certain facts. Snoke didn't have to hurt her to defeat her either. He disarmed her or just hurled her around with a force push to make her feel the butterflies in her stomach. Snoke showed her without killing or maiming he's behind her. Luke didn't. Your excuses are rather nauseating.
4. Sidious admitted Anakin had more potential than himself. Cucking his power to Anakin doesn't instill confidence in Sidious to me.
5. No, he used his strength with his cyborg arm to do so. If he used the force he could have done so far faster than the slow I'm going to hurl you over with my one good arm.
Snoke was caught off guard by a much quicker attack with his defenses completely lowered. Palpatine was killed by his one handed apprentice without any force powers after he just failed to turn Luke. Snoke achieved his mission whereas Palpatine's was a massive failure.
😂
Originally posted by HaschwalthHe was never a numero uno in any organization. Vader was a slave and then made it into a whiny Jedi to later become Palpatine's burnt shamed cuck after Kenobi destroyed most of his body.
How many rivals did Kylo have? like what 12.
Anakin made it into the top 5 out of Thousands.By your logic.
Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Luke already does with his statements regarding Kylo and Rey.2. Well Vader was like Kylo who couldn't get it done but someone like Snoke definitely could. Thanks for bolstering my point. Luke still had his abilities and still has the choice how to react. He wasn't quick enough to defend himself.
3. Pis is an excuse fanboys use to undermine certain facts. Snoke didn't have to hurt her to defeat her either. He disarmed her or just hurled her around with a force push to make her feel the butterflies in her stomach. Snoke showed her without killing or maiming he's behind her. Luke didn't. Your excuses are rather nauseating.
4. Sidious admitted Anakin had more potential than himself. Cucking his power to Anakin doesn't instill confidence in Sidious to me.
5. No, he used his strength with his cyborg arm to do so. If he used the force he could have done so far faster than the slow I'm going to hurl you over with my one good arm.
Snoke was caught off guard by a much quicker attack with his defenses completely lowered. Palpatine was killed by his one handed apprentice without any force powers after he just failed to turn Luke. Snoke achieved his mission whereas Palpatine's was a massive failure.
😂
Your lack of knowledge with force abilities disgusts me.
4. Anakin was born pure of the force, no one compares to that, snoke/Kylo/Rey combined would still become FP Anakins bitches.
5.Have you heard of force physical amplification, what you think Sidious/Yoda are prime candidates for normal strength competitions, Rofl.
6.Yeah, his idiocracy, to not use Precognition screwed it over, It took vaders full might to take Sidious, and throw him off. kinda shows the difference in how hard it was to get rid of him compared to Snoke.
3. Luke wasn't trying to harm or threaten her, he only used self defence, Snoke ragdolling Rey was a clear sign of hostility. Kylo with far more knowledge and equal power with Rey, was schooled by an illusion of luke. in deception, nor did he touch luke with a lightsaber. yeah both Snoke and Luke schooled Rey/Kylo in someway.
2. you literally ignored my point of mental conflict affects force potential.
1.Statement doesn't automatically mean fact sorry, needs physical evidence.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was never a numero uno in any organization. Vader was a slave and then made it into a whiny Jedi to later become Palpatine's burnt shamed cuck after Kenobi destroyed most of his body.
See this line of reasoning, it is silly.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke was caught off guard by a much quicker attack with his defenses completely lowered. Palpatine was killed by his one handed apprentice without any force powers after he just failed to turn Luke. Snoke achieved his mission whereas Palpatine's was a massive failure.😂
oh really, I seem to recall that saber turning towards Snoke rather slowly, lol Snoke was actually describing Kylos moves but he was too stupid to sense that they were directed towards him... yeah some great Force talent there I tell ya... Snoke was stupid and died because of it and his death was a lot slower than Vader picking up Sidious abruptly and tossing him into that shaft.
Originally posted by samappo
Snoke wasn't too stupid, he was overconfident, like Sidious.
for sure Sidious got blindsided and wasn't paying attention when he should've but Snoke was pulling a good ol JR and actually CALLING THE ACTION 😂 they guy basically did commentary on his own death which is leagues worse because he was supposedly paying full attention to the goings on around him
Originally posted by Haschwalth4. Anakin was defeated by Kenobi who wasn't born of the force. Kenobi was less skilled and less powerful yet still defeated him in a fair duel. Anakin was Dooku's ***** twice in one film to be exact. Luke also met Vader and he didn't see the raw strength in Vader he saw in Rey and Ben.
Your lack of knowledge with force abilities disgusts me.4. Anakin was born pure of the force, no one compares to that, snoke/Kylo/Rey combined would still become FP Anakins bitches.
We clearly see when they are using it. If Vader picks up a frail old man we don't assume he's using the force to pick up a frail old man. We can tell when Yoda and Sidious use the force. Yoda isn't using the force when he's walking around with his cane.
5.Have you heard of force physical amplification, what you think Sidious/Yoda are prime candidates for normal strength competitions, Rofl.6.Yeah, his idiocracy, to not use Precognition screwed it over, It took vaders full might to take Sidious, and throw him off. kinda shows the difference in how hard it was to get rid of him compared to Snoke.
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6. Precognition isn't 100 percent accurate. It took Vader's strength hoist an older man and hurl him to his death. This took a really long time for a lord of the Sith. No, it shows you don't even need the force or a quick attack. Vader also was a shell of his former force abilities and never reached his potential. A damaged Vader with one arm and no force was able to execute Sidious in a much longer timeframe in which he had time to defend himself. He died.
3. Snoke wasn't trying to kill or maim her. He was mocking her while ripping the information out of her. He called off his own personal guard because she was nothing to him. Luke fighting back is a clear sign of hostility as well. The difference is Luke failed and was not beyond her skills like Snoke demonstrated.3. Luke wasn't trying to harm or threaten her, he only used self defence, Snoke ragdolling Rey was a clear sign of hostility. Kylo with far more knowledge and equal power with Rey, was schooled by an illusion of luke. in deception, nor did he touch luke with a lightsaber. yeah both Snoke and Luke schooled Rey/Kylo in someway.
2. you literally ignored my point of mental conflict affects force potential.
1.Statement doesn't automatically mean fact sorry, needs physical evidence. [/B]
In direct conflict Ben got the better of Luke. In direct combat what happened to Ben ? Tricking Ben with an illusion doesn't make his earlier defeat magically disappear.
Kylo's overreactions and emotional outbursts are his greatest strength and weakness. He's foaming at the mouth in the scene to kill Luke.
2. You literally didn't back your claim and are ignoring emotions and mental stability. If I don't believe in myself during a fight that's on me. Bring your A game. I don't want to hear any more excuses such as he had a headache or something as ridiculous as he was going through a lot.
1. Already supplied and I hear excuses. Snoke >>Ben or Rey in direct conflict. Luke was shown up by both. Results matter.
Originally posted by relentless1He was overconfident and gloating in his triumph over obtaining Luke's location. Once he used the attack it was very quick. Slow is a one armed man picking you up and you screaming like a woman unable to defend or save yourself. He begged Anakin to save his life against Windu but now that he tired of the emperor he executed him without the force or a light saber. A humiliating way to go especially since Luke just destroyed Vader in a duel.
oh really, I seem to recall that saber turning towards Snoke rather slowly, lol Snoke was actually describing Kylos moves but he was too stupid to sense that they were directed towards him... yeah some great Force talent there I tell ya... Snoke was stupid and died because of it and his death was a lot slower than Vader picking up Sidious abruptly and tossing him into that shaft.
Snoke also achieved his goal of acquiring the intel whereas Palpatine failed at seducing Luke to the dark side. A saber hurled and cutting you in half is much quicker than picking you up and walking over to the edge to hurl you to your pitiful death.
Snoke>any force user at this point. It's a fact.
Originally posted by relentless1Snoke was overconfident and Kylo knew he couldn't take him directly so that's leagues better than a weaponless slow moving cyborg to pick him up and throw him over the edge.
for sure Sidious got blindsided and wasn't paying attention when he should've but Snoke was pulling a good ol JR and actually CALLING THE ACTION 😂 they guy basically did commentary on his own death which is leagues worse because he was supposedly paying full attention to the goings on around him
We already saw Yoda equal him in force power and Windu defeat him in a duel.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDhey legend how's it going bud.
I am sorry but I saw a completely different fight than you.Snoke utterly outclassed both Rey and Ren in raw power and Force abilities at individual capacity. Ren didn't even bother to intervene when Snoke was rag-dolling Rey around.
IMHO snoke is probably superior to both of them at this point. Part of the reason kylo didn't interfer was fear of the red guards, but I also believe another part of the reason was kylos fear of snokes power.
The problem is what i personally believe and what i consider to be arguable facts for the purposes of a battle board are 2 different things.
My point was that we can't judge how snokes power would fare vs say kylos power based on the feats we have because we never saw kylos power against him.
If they weren't in snokes ship, filled with his army, in his throne room, surrounded by red guards, would it have went the same? Would kylo have snatched snoke with his tk or force choked him instead of just taking a step or two foward if the red guards weren't there? Would kylo have just swallowed his anger after being zapped or would he have lashed out? I don't know, and I can't see how anyone else can with the info we have. It would just be speculation.
Just like the power if snokes lightning. Was that just a small zap to put kylo back in his place? Probably. But I'm not going to argue like it's a fact that he can produce stronger lightning without him demonstrating that he can in fact do so. If we did argue that, then how powerful could we argue it being? Strong enough to one shot KO? One shit kill? Burn to a crisp? Burn to ash? Can he unleash stronger lightning as quickly, or would he need some charge up time?
Originally posted by quanchi112I'll give u snoke tp'ing the info out if Rey. Tbh I wasn't really considering tp/mental powers like that or Vader ripping the info out of Luke's mind about him having a sister in RotJ, I thought we were talking about the more combat related powers like tk, lightning etc... Though I should have been more specific. And while snokes mental powers were impressive they didn't seem beyond Kylos ability to hide the fact that he was planning to kill him.
We see he forcibly saw her into mind against her will with his force powers. Kylo was unable to do so prior to even her Luke training. That's how impressive she was before she even knew she had powers. Luke trained her after the fact. She couldn't stop Snoke because his force power is beyond anyone's in the films. Her defenses were up and that's entirely different than a force push in ripping the information out of her mind.Ok but after Yoda was armed and ready for the fight he was able to defend himself. When Rey was armed he toyed with her at will. That's the difference between Snoke and every other force user he was beyond direct conflict. Yoda and Palpatine were peers but neither could have their way with the other once their guard was up.
Snoke zapping him shows how quick he is since Kylo stopped a blaster bolt right after its shot from an unseen foe in the first film. My point is when Snoke meant business he humbled both Rey and Kylo. It wasn't even a contest neither could directly challenge him.
False, as Dooku wasn't able to force hurl Anakin at his will. Snoke took her saber when he wanted and hurled her around when he wanted mocking her. He didn't have to take her seriously whereas Dooku had to fight him saber to saber after his initial foolish charge was thwarted. Dooku can't just force throw him around at will. Even when he force choked Kenobi in rots he needed the right moment to do so. He didn't do so at will which is what Snoke did to Rey. Any way he wanted it he could just diagram or suspend her via force rape.
We have never seen anyone this powerful with the force. It's staggering the supremacy he displayed with the force powers. Everything you fanboys claimed has only been put into practice by Snoke and you biased fools won't even acknowledge it in true Trumpian fashion.
You're comparing yoda being armed and ready for the fight with rey just being armed. That's the problem. Rey wasn't ready to deal with a tk attack, and didn't mount any sort of force based offense or defense against it. He didn't over power her force power, he just over powered a hundred pound woman. just like palpatine didn't over power yoda's force power in his office He just overpowered a 3 foot tall alien.
Your point of snoke zapping him quickly and humbling kylo is moot. Since my point was that Dooku did the same thing to Anakin in AotC, only in a more impressive fashion. And Dooku didn't do it while surrounded by his own personal guards (like snoke did) that would make any sort of counter attack impractical at best.
Dooku was able to hurl Anakin at his will, made evident by the fact that he hurled anakin around with his lightning and ko'd him at will. You're acting like because dookus blast was more potent and instantly ko'd Anakin and he didn't keep throwing him around at leisure like snoke did rey thstyit's somehow less impressive. So if obi wan wasn't there and dooku picked up anakins limp body with the force after he insta ko'd him and tossed it around for a minute would that be more impressive to u?
There was no evidence dooku had to go saber to saber with Anakin. It's not like he tried to overpower him again and failed like with yoda. He already humbled him with the force, so he decided to humble him with his saber the second round. Which he did by taking taking his arm. Now you're acting like humbling someone once with the force is more impressive than humbling someone with the force and sabers. Lol.
I'm hardly a fanboy or biased. I just call it like I see it. Which is more than I can say for u. And how I see it is he's firmly below Sidious, Vader and dooku. I would put him over movie only Maul tho.
Originally posted by Raptor22
I'll give u snoke tp'ing the info out if Rey. Tbh I wasn't really considering tp/mental powers like that or Vader ripping the info out of Luke's mind about him having a sister in RotJ, I thought we were talking about the more combat related powers like tk, lightning etc... Though I should have been more specific. And while snokes mental powers were impressive they didn't seem beyond Kylos ability to hide the fact that he was planning to kill him.You're comparing yoda being armed and ready for the fight with rey just being armed. That's the problem. Rey wasn't ready to deal with a tk attack, and didn't mount any sort of force based offense or defense against it. He didn't over power her force power, he just over powered a hundred pound woman. just like palpatine didn't over power yoda's force power in his office He just overpowered a 3 foot tall alien.
Your point of snoke zapping him quickly and humbling kylo is moot. Since my point was that Dooku did the same thing to Anakin in AotC, only in a more impressive fashion. And Dooku didn't do it while surrounded by his own personal guards (like snoke did) that would make any sort of counter attack impractical at best.
Dooku was able to hurl Anakin at his will, made evident by the fact that he hurled anakin around with his lightning and ko'd him at will. You're acting like because dookus blast was more potent and instantly ko'd Anakin and he didn't keep throwing him around at leisure like snoke did rey thstyit's somehow less impressive. So if obi wan wasn't there and dooku picked up anakins limp body with the force after he insta ko'd him and tossed it around for a minute would that be more impressive to u?
There was no evidence dooku had to go saber to saber with Anakin. It's not like he tried to overpower him again and failed like with yoda. He already humbled him with the force, so he decided to humble him with his saber the second round. Which he did by taking taking his arm. Now you're acting like humbling someone once with the force is more impressive than humbling someone with the force and sabers. Lol.
I'm hardly a fanboy or biased. I just call it like I see it. Which is more than I can say for u. And how I see it is he's firmly below Sidious, Vader and dooku. I would put him over movie only Maul tho.
It's a compliment to Snoke tbh. He is powerful, if the two only dark side user who showed more impressive movie feats were Dooku and Palatine.