Originally posted by Adam_PoEAffirmative action seems like the second pane to me. Except we're talking about careers and not watching a baseball game, and the short person might actually end up being not as good at their job as the tall person.
I can see it's time to break this out again for the clinically slow:
The main problem with striving for equality of outcome as opposed to equality of opportunity is that it basically requires different treatment of different groups, because the underlying assumption that all groups are the same and when given an equal playing field will excel in the same exact areas and to the same exact degree is essentially baseless and contrary to any existing evidence or data.
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well you know, you have to actually make up for it first.Simply not discriminating doesn't count as making up for the effects of discrimination.
If I put you in a hole, simply not digging the hole further isn't the same as taking you out of the hole.
That's utter bullsh!t. Poverty does keep you from getting educated, that's why poor people are generally much worse off than those born in rich backgrounds.
If poverty didn't impede your ability to learn, then there wouldn't be a difference between the educational success of the poor and the rich.
If poverty is negatively affecting student's ability to learn, that is, by definition, impeding them.
No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.
This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.
And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.
"White Guilt" is just a lazy deflection from the actual issues in our society.
Anyway Adam POE put this best:
No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.
This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.
And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.
"White guilt" is just a lazy deflection from actual systematic issues.
Anyway, Adam put it best:
The problem with large scale fixes like the one's you're implying, is it results in small scale wrongs to individuals.
You can't, for example, have a quota on women, without denying that same spot to someone else (A man, in this case.)
Or to go with the box analogy, someone just might end up behind a kid standing up on a chair as he's trying to watch a wrestling show, with his goddamned mom standing right next to him, the *****. 😠
Not a good evening.
But yeah, point is people aren't just groups, and imo it's not right to wrong someone to fix group wrongs. Even if it only affects a single person from being shut out..
Originally posted by snowdragonTrust me, Sudan is a different level of danger for a white man, which I am and I lived and grew up in South London, where you are at least as likely to be knifed or beaten up as anywhere in the US and we have quite a high gun crime rates and very high acid attack rates. Tbh, so of the places in Africa I visit without weapons usually like Niger would make your average gangbanger shit himself and your average military boy without his squad and weapons. Suck it up.
I could do the same at 8th and I in washington dc.
Originally posted by RockydonovangGood Post
Well you know, you have to actually make up for it first.Simply not discriminating doesn't count as making up for the effects of discrimination.
If I put you in a hole, simply not digging the hole further isn't the same as taking you out of the hole.
That's utter bullsh!t. Poverty does keep you from getting educated, that's why poor people are generally much worse off than those born in rich backgrounds.
If poverty didn't impede your ability to learn, then there wouldn't be a difference between the educational success of the poor and the rich.
If poverty is negatively affecting student's ability to learn, that is, by definition, impeding them.
No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.
This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.
And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.
"White Guilt" is just a lazy deflection from the actual issues in our society.
Anyway Adam POE put this best:
No, it's not white guilt, it's government guilt. The government's decades of discrimination have left minorities disproportionally affected by the government's negligence and indirectly discriminant policies against the poor.
This has nothing to do with white people, this has to do with America fixing the mess it made.
And no, simply stopping the mess from being made bigger(though it has been made bigger by certain indirectly discriminant polices), is not the same as fixing the mess you made.
"White guilt" is just a lazy deflection from actual systematic issues.
Anyway, Adam put it best:
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Trust me, Sudan is a different level of danger for a white man, which I am and I lived and grew up in South London, where you are at least as likely to be knifed or beaten up as anywhere in the US and we have quite a high gun crime rates and very high acid attack rates. Tbh, so of the places in Africa I visit without weapons usually like Niger would make your average gangbanger shit himself and your average military boy without his squad and weapons. Suck it up.
Originally posted by ArtificialGloryI don't talk Korean or have any interest or empathy with the North Korean culture. I have been to South Korea and the women are gorgeous, I would be out of my depth, with Africans and Arabs it's different, I can predict them a little, understand some of there culture and respect it and am able to converse with them. So the answer would be no, as, North Korea just seems a bloody odd place in its strange brainwashed austerity. The actual fear of being shot or blown up isn't an issue if that happens it happens, the worry in North Korea would be you are taken and unable to explain and/or talk your way out.
But are you enough of a badass to go to North Korea and steal a propaganda poster?
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
I don't talk Korean or have any interest or empathy with the culture. I would be out of my depth, with Africans and Arabs it's different, I can predict them a little, understand some of there culture and respect it and am able to converse with them. So the answer would be no, as, North Korea just seems a bloody odd place in its strange brainwashed austerity.
Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
Trust me, Sudan is a different level of danger for a white man, which I am and I lived and grew up in South London, where you are at least as likely to be knifed or beaten up as anywhere in the US and we have quite a high gun crime rates
and very high acid attack rates.😕 Strange, we don't really have those here.
Originally posted by Afro CheeseNo, nowhere in America do people like to get up close and personal, it's all guns. Scotland has amazing knife crime statistics. https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/383532/knife-crime-in-scotland-soars-by-ten-per-cent-in-a-year-as-victims-campaigner-says-offenders-treated-too-leniently/
😕 Strange, we don't really have those here.
Higher than anywhere in the western world.
What America also forgets is the UK had a civil war going on for decades until recently.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/deaths_by_year.html
The UK is not like the US our problems are smaller due to numbers of people but no less unpleasant. It's why I live with the nice people of the Middle East. Who are far more sensible generally when left alone by the US/UK and others.
Originally posted by Steve ZodiacLol.... ok. Didn't realize "acid attacks" were a uniquely British tradition... I actually figured them for an import from the wonderful Muslim world.
No, nowhere in America do people like to get up close and personal, it's all guns. Scotland has amazing knife crime statistics. https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/383532/knife-crime-in-scotland-soars-by-ten-per-cent-in-a-year-as-victims-campaigner-says-offenders-treated-too-leniently/Higher than anywhere in the western world.
What America also forgets is the UK had a civil war going on for decades until recently.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/deaths_by_year.html
The UK is not like the US our problems are smaller due to numbers of people but no less unpleasant. It's why I live with the nice people of the Middle East. Who are far more sensible generally when left alone by the US/UK and others.
Originally posted by cdtm
The problem with large scale fixes like the one's you're implying, is it results in small scale wrongs to individuals.You can't, for example, have a quota on women, without denying that same spot to someone else (A man, in this case.)
Or to go with the box analogy, someone just might end up behind a kid standing up on a chair as he's trying to watch a wrestling show, with his goddamned mom standing right next to him, the *****. 😠
Not a good evening.
But yeah, point is people aren't just groups, and imo it's not right to wrong someone to fix group wrongs. Even if it only affects a single person from being shut out..
I also have an issue with his hole analogy. The problem is nobody alive currently dug those holes, and nobody alive currently was actually put in those holes.
And especially if we're going to talk about native americans and use the hole analogy...they NA's sure as hell did love putting each other in holes.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Lol.... ok. Didn't realize "acid attacks" were a uniquely British tradition... I actually figured them for an import from the wonderful Muslim world.
I just love how he describes the knife attack stats as "amazing". He seems to genuinely feel this says something positive about these people....because they like to get up close to maim? Cuz real men use knives to harm you, I guess. Or they toss acid at your face. I dunno what the message is supposed to be lol.
Now personally if someone is attacking someone else for no reason...whether with guns or knives or acid, I find them to be gigantic pussies. There is no "well it's not as pathetic if he's stabbing you for no reason as opposed to shooting you for no reason" clause.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I am pretty sure all their use of knives says about them is that they don't have as many guns as us
Nah it's cuz they are noble people. Whenever an acid attack occurs you have two guys who put their backs to each other and walk ten paces and then they turn around and frantically run at each other flinging acid while shouting "god save the queen".