Could Orion solo The Authority?

Originally posted by cdtm
Orion's no stranger to offensive matter manip.

In Simonson's run, a member of the Deep Six transmutated life across an entire sea into "Joker fish". He tried outright killing Orion with his power, and the best he could do is take his skin off and cause some pain (Which only made him mad, and triggered the mother of all beat downs.

And if we're assuming different rules, I'd argue someone who can cure blindness by ripping out someones eyes and popping them into his own head probably plays off a different ruleset then most.

I forgot about that feat. Was it the MB that protected Orion?

Originally posted by Smurph
I agree with all of this, with the caveat that there's room between rolling a team and beating them, and I think Orion likely takes the rest of Authority sans Doctor. Some members would be hard to put down, but it would mostly be a one-way fight.

I totally forgot about Doctor reforming though. /srug.

Yup, I can agree with that assessment.

And they're easy feats to forget. But really, of all the plot device-y ways the Doctor has been taken out, I can't recall any that are actual blitzes. But yeah, when Jenny pulled the suicide bomber thing on Habib was one, and the evil Doctor reformed his brain. It feels cheap to me, even as a huge Doctor fan, but the feats are there.

Given the team format here, and the fact that Orion isn't technically a speedster, I think it would be a stretch to call "blitz" on this fight anyway. He fight get a first strike, but it wouldn't be a OHK to someone with the Doctor's powers.

Originally posted by Zack M
I forgot about that feat. Was it the MB that protected Orion?

At the time, I believe he was running without any box.

He did get a "father box" at some point, given by an enemy (So sketchy..)

Some feats from current orion:

- Punked Hal Jordan twice. Same Hal Jordan who easily tooled Zero Hour Parallax and Sinestrollax.
- Resisted Mogo's gravity attack. Same attack which owned a slew of Black Lanterns.
- Destroyed a solar system as a side effect with his fight with Golem.
- Helped Superman resist Hector Hammond's (According to Lobdell, Hector is Onslaught level) mental attacks with his Mother Box.
- Went toe to toe with DCnU Superman. Same Superman who benched the entire weight of the planet for five consecutive days.

Originally posted by cdtm
At the time, I believe he was running without any box.

He did get a "father box" at some point, given by an enemy (So sketchy..)

yeah, I forgot about the Father Box.

Originally posted by Zack M
I think the Doctor is the only real threat. How is the Doctor's resistance against mental attacks? Orion's MB has subdued beings in the past.

He has flooded someone with all the memories of the entire human race. At once. He also effortlessly mind-nuked a telepath who had control over something like 40% of the world's minds.

Do you actually know anything about the Doctor, or are you just trying to shoehorn a win for your boy? I'm not an Orion expert, but at least I'm going in with a healthy understanding of powers.

Originally posted by cdtm
So Doctor's unbeatable?

He's never been taken down?

Various plot devices mostly. Jeroen - the Doctor in OP's pic - was a notorious drug user. So like, they'd make him high off his ass and passed out for entire stories. Once he was friends with the villain - part of his church - before realizing he was an idiot and destroying the guy in seconds (who had, by that point, conquered a good portion of the planet and was wrecking the rest of the team). They'll also do things like set off cataclysms across the planet that he needs to deal with instead of fighting the enemy team, since he could end team fights in seconds. Once Jenny Q got taken over telepathically, and was used to stalemate him (they were opening multiversal doors and doing things like creating anti-matter to attack one another). The Evil Doctor only lost because he developed a conscience. He was going to wipe out the entire Earth's hero population otherwise. The Authority evacuated the entire planet (no joke) before fighting him because they didn't think they could contain the damage.

So it varies. He's lost, but there's usually context to it. But like, he made a new body for Winter, who is a low herald energy absorber/manipulator. He can create beings that should be fighting the likes of Orion. In a serious fight, Orion's not a threat to him.

He has flooded someone with all the memories of the entire human race. At once. He also effortlessly mind-nuked a telepath who had control over something like 40% of the world's minds.

Impressive. Read up on the feats I posted above.

Originally posted by Zack M
Impressive. Read up on the feats I posted above.

I mean, again, you're talking about a Superman-class hero with someone impressive output and soak abilities. No disrespect, it's all good stuff. But it's all for naught when he decides to blink, and before his eyelids open, the Doctor's magically frozen him in place. The Doctor can turn his head into a symphony and his genitals into cupcakes (both references to actual feats), flood him with a planet's worth of memories, phase in and out of existence at will, swallow and belch suns like they're jalepenos, tear him apart at a subatomic level with raw manipulative feats or anti-matter, pull in other versions of himself or others from around the multiverse if the threat is big enough, and - if need be - probably match him in raw power if needed. Things like strength and blast radii are irrelevant. It's bringing a baseball bat to a philosophy lecture.

If OP hadn't disallowed BFR, we could also include instantaneous time travel. The Doctor could murder Orion as a baby (and has done just that to someone before), or whatever passes for a baby on New Genesis.

I'll respond to the "mind nuke" comments:

1. Also in Simonson's Orion run (Which is must read, imo 🙂 ), he faced a cosmic type primal being that, by looking on it, drives you insane.

He didn't.. And when he told Scott Free about it, he dressed up the fact he was there at all as proof of his failure with the Anti Life Equation, to which Scott replies "Orion, you looked it in the eye, and didn't lose your mind! Only you could dress this up as a failure!"

2. John Ostrander established that New Gods are immune to Martian level telepathy, who as a race are easily among the best of the best on tp feats (Many of them from J'onn, naturally).

Of course, it's possible Doctor is >>>>> Xavier level, but that embodiement of chaos that drives a man insane tanking leads me to believe the old Maxima beatdown should safely be dead and buried (She's powerful, but not quite that powerful.. Milton Fine Brainiac otoh might be..), and that Orion can take whatever he's dished out mentally..

Originally posted by Digi
He has flooded someone with all the memories of the entire human race. At once. He also effortlessly mind-nuked a telepath who had control over something like 40% of the world's minds.

Do you actually know anything about the Doctor, or are you just trying to shoehorn a win for your boy? I'm not an Orion expert, but at least I'm going in with a healthy understanding of powers.

Various plot devices mostly. Jeroen - the Doctor in OP's pic - was a notorious drug user. So like, they'd make him high off his ass and passed out for entire stories. Once he was friends with the villain - part of his church - before realizing he was an idiot and destroying the guy in seconds (who had, by that point, conquered a good portion of the planet and was wrecking the rest of the team). They'll also do things like set off cataclysms across the planet that he needs to deal with instead of fighting the enemy team, since he could end team fights in seconds. Once Jenny Q got taken over telepathically, and was used to stalemate him (they were opening multiversal doors and doing things like creating anti-matter to attack one another). The Evil Doctor only lost because he developed a conscience. He was going to wipe out the entire Earth's hero population otherwise. The Authority evacuated the entire planet (no joke) before fighting him because they didn't think they could contain the damage.

So it varies. He's lost, but there's usually context to it. But like, he made a new body for Winter, who is a low herald energy absorber/manipulator. He can create beings that should be fighting the likes of Orion. In a serious fight, Orion's not a threat to him.

Sounds like it would take "True Darksed" to beat him then.

Is there a "true Orion"? Hth is Orion ever supposed to kill his father after he's been upgraded to abstract level..?

It was revealed in Multiversity that each New God has a true form. The Orion you see is just a fraction of what the true Orion is.

Also, in Godhead (By Venditti), The New Gods are the most powerful gods in the Multiverse.

Originally posted by cdtm
Sounds like it would take "True Darksed" to beat him then.

Is there a "true Orion"? Hth is Orion ever supposed to kill his father after he's been upgraded to abstract level..?

Possibly. We call Doctor Trans. tier, but some of his feats defy easy description. He's never needed the "Over 9000" style raw power feats (which is really all he lacks relative to others at that level), because anything he thinks of, reality shapes around him to make it happen. He's one of the more crazily versatile non-abstracts in all of comics.

Sorcerer Supreme Strange with prep could counter Doctor's stuff for the most part, and Strange might actually have better raw power feats. It wouldn't take a full abstract to beat him. But he's like all the best parts of Strange turned to 11, and without the reliance on artifacts and spells.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'll respond to the "mind nuke" comments:

1. Also in Simonson's Orion run (Which is must read, imo 🙂 ), he faced a cosmic type primal being that, by looking on it, drives you insane.

He didn't.. And when he told Scott Free about it, he dressed up the fact he was there at all as proof of his failure with the Anti Life Equation, to which Scott replies "Orion, you looked it in the eye, and didn't lose your mind! Only you could dress this up as a failure!"

2. John Ostrander established that New Gods are immune to Martian level telepathy, who as a race are easily among the best of the best on tp feats (Many of them from J'onn, naturally).

Of course, it's possible Doctor is >>>>> Xavier level, but that embodiement of chaos that drives a man insane tanking leads me to believe the old Maxima beatdown should safely be dead and buried (She's powerful, but not quite that powerful.. Milton Fine Brainiac otoh might be..), and that Orion can take whatever he's dished out mentally..

The mind feats were in response to Zach's question about his psi abilities. I don't think the fight would come to that. I think the Doctor would freeze him in place and Jack would make his Los Angeles battle suit rip Orion's d*ck off.

But with respect to Doctor v. Chuck, it's not that he has better tp feats (he's got a handful, but not the decades of feats Xavier has), but his power levels don't always seem bounded by specific limits. It wasn't that he always had that much telepathic skill. He just thought "Hm, let me teach this guy a lesson by giving him the pain of an entire species" and it just happened. At times the writers made his power to be grounded in reality (i.e. matter manipulation, time manipulation), not just hand-wavy "magic" or the more nebulous reality manipulation. But a lot of his showings defy those descriptions, so calling him a reality manipulator - a la Jaspers but not on quite as big a scale - might not be wrong. But Orion could probably resist a telepathic assault, if I were to guess.

The Authority would have to take apart/destroy the Mother Box, because Orion would just heal from nearly every attack the Authority brings to the table.

Orion managed to survive (with Kyle's help) Golem's Omega beams.

Same beams that could kill skyfather level Highfather.

I'd take the team for a majority, but wouldn't be surprised if he does this in a comic.

No

Not a chance.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I'd take the team for a majority, but wouldn't be surprised if he does this in a comic.

Yeah, the Authrority had a tough time putting LOBO down (in a comic). Orion is more powerful/formidable than Lobo, IMO.

Originally posted by cdtm
So Doctor's unbeatable?

He's never been taken down?

Having said that, he's still a huge threat obviously.

Originally posted by Zack M
Yeah, the Authrority had a tough time putting LOBO down (in a comic). Orion is more powerful/formidable than Lobo, IMO.

Which is one of the aforementioned times where the Doctor was wrecked on drugs to keep him out of the plot, iirc. Context matters, it turns out.

Those Lobo crossovers were basically gore-porn fan fiction, too. Not exactly the best source, imo.

Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah, this is my take away; the Doctor's failed to solo much less significant threats than Orion.
I get the 'forum rules, fight to best ability' stuff, but there's also 'fight in character', and in character, the Doctor didnt fight as projected here on anything like average.

Having said that, he's still a huge threat obviously.

Examples of these "much less significant" threats he's failed to solo? Any time he's given a normal shot at a fight, he usually destroys the big bads.

Digi, always The Doctor's fanboy.