Originally posted by Lord Stark
Eh I mean Mark's statement is part of it, but more along the lines of we don't really have many feats for Luke at this point, and his greatest ones are certainly as of ROTJ.
He has the most impressive Force feat in the films in TLJ, but even ignoring that we're taking "feats and nothing else" to an absurd extreme. Cue whether you seriously think Black Widow > Thanos in the MCU.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He has the most impressive Force feat in the films in TLJ, but even ignoring that we're taking "feats and nothing else" to an absurd extreme. Cue whether you seriously think Black Widow > Thanos in the MCU.
But certainly not within the composite canon mythos which has the likes of Yoda moving mountains. Thanos is explicitly stated as being the most powerful being in the universe, and we know he can wield Infinity Stones.
In comparison, Luke simply has "one of the most powerful Jedi" which is an accolade that is given to everyone from Kit Fisto to Mace Windu. +Luke as per Yoda has barely even read the Jedi texts. Compared with someone like Dooku who has been a member of the Jedi Council and had access to the vast collection of knowledge in the Jedi Archives. I don't see Luke as superior to the likes of Windu and Dooku who sat on the council and had access to a cornucopia of knowledge.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
But certainly not within the composite canon mythos which has the likes of Yoda moving mountains.
He moves mountains in Canon? When?
Anyway, Luke's projection feat particularly stands out because it's in a medium where demonstrations of the Force are consistently toned down. We can wait for the literature for more (there's already that passage where Luke brings down a star destroyer, but it's not clear how embellished it is).
Thanos is explicitly stated as being the most powerful being in the universe, and we know he can wield Infinity Stones.
Ah, so accolades do matter. Then we know from in and out of universe accolades that Luke has the potential of his father, or close to it, and it's not difficult from the fact that he was matching Vader in 1.5 years of training to infer that he has surpassed Sidious, let alone Dooku.
In comparison, Luke simply has "one of the most powerful Jedi" which is an accolade that is given to everyone from Kit Fisto to Mace Windu. +Luke as per Yoda has barely even read the Jedi texts.
The texts in those temple I'm pretty sure very few characters have ever read, given that its location wasn't on the record.
Compared with someone like Dooku who has been a member of the Jedi Council and had access to the vast collection of knowledge in the Jedi Archives. I don't see Luke as superior to the likes of Windu and Dooku who sat on the council and had access to a cornucopia of knowledge.
In knowledge it's debatable (we don't know what Luke does after RotJ - in Legends for example he probably has more knowledge than Dooku or Windu). But in raw power it's not even close. There's a reason why Sidious wanted to replace Vader with Luke.
Anyway, I forget where I put my debunking.
I found this though, which is similar and sufficient: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/debunking-yodas-mountain-feat-1901225/
Originally posted by The Ellimist
He moves mountains in Canon? When?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=641474&pagenumber=1
Anyway, Luke's projection feat particularly stands out because it's in a medium where demonstrations of the Force are consistently toned down. We can wait for the literature for more (there's already that passage where Luke brings down a star destroyer, but it's not clear how embellished it is).
Yeah in the Legends of Luke Skywalker, we'll have to see about that though.
Ah, so accolades do matter. Then we know from in and out of universe accolades that Luke has the potential of his father, or close to it, and it's not difficult from the fact that he was matching Vader in 1.5 years of training to infer that he has surpassed Sidious, let alone Dooku.
GL accolades only really apply within the context of films in which he was actively involved.
The texts in those temple I'm pretty sure very few characters have ever read, given that its location wasn't on the record.
Doesn't really matter considering he never read them.
In knowledge it's debatable (we don't know what Luke does after RotJ - in Legends for example he probably has more knowledge than Dooku or Windu). But in raw power it's not even close. There's a reason why Sidious wanted to replace Vader with Luke.
Sure, but it doesn't seem like he really reached that potential.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anyway, I forget where I put my debunking.I found this though, which is similar and sufficient: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/debunking-yodas-mountain-feat-1901225/
That doesn't seem to debunk anything. While sure Yoda does use the planet and the others to commune with it, he is very clearly using TK to stop the Mountain, which is why the ground around him is shattered and the rocks around him are floating. That doesn't happen with just telepathy.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
That doesn't seem to debunk anything. While sure Yoda does use the planet and the others to commune with it, he is very clearly using TK to stop the Mountain, which is why the ground around him is shattered and the rocks around him are floating. That doesn't happen with just telepathy.
And no, I couldn't disagree more. It's not telekinesis and frankly there's no reason to believe it is, everything else aside, given the feat is wildly different in scale than any other telekinetic feat we've seen in Star Wars Canon (Skywalkers aside). The explanation provided in the thread is far more reasonable since it explains the feat without having Yoda ridiculously and inconsistently powerful. It's stated in the Attack of the Clones script that Yoda had to use all his power to move that crane. It's obvious, then, that with telekinesis he could not lift a mountain.
L: Master Yoda.
Y: Young Skywalker.
L: I'm ending all of this. The tree, the text, the Jedi. I'm gonna burn it down.
Y: Ah, Skywalker. Missed you, have I.
L: So it is time for the Jedi Order to end.
Y: Time it is. For you to look past a pile of old books, hmm?
L: The sacred Jedi texts.
Y: Oh. Read them, have you? Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess. Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose.
L: I was weak. Unwise.
Y: Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not.
L: I can't be what she needs me to be.
Y: Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.
😬
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
When did Yoda state that? I saw the film four times and don't recall that line whatsoever.
Your transcript is missing Luke's line where he says "I was getting to it" or something around those lines.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Did you even read the thread?And no, I couldn't disagree more. It's not telekinesis and frankly there's no reason to believe it is, everything else aside, given the feat is wildly different in scale than any other telekinetic feat we've seen in Star Wars Canon (Skywalkers aside). The explanation provided in the thread is far more reasonable since it explains the feat without having Yoda ridiculously and inconsistently powerful. It's stated in the Attack of the Clones script that Yoda had to use all his power to move that crane. It's obvious, then, that with telekinesis he could not lift a mountain.
Yeah, I did. Nothing in there really suggests it being mutually exclusive. Also doesn't explain why there is a massive crack in exactly where Yoda is standing and why rocks around him being to levitate. Star Wars isn't consistent, what a shocker.
And even given that, you'd still have Yoda channeling the power of an entire planet.
https://the123movies.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi/
Around 1:22:00
No, the transcript isn't missing anything. Luke just stutters incoherently.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://the123movies.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi/Around 1:22:00
No, the transcript isn't missing anything. Luke just stutters incoherently.
Are you deaf? It's not incoherent at all.
"Read them have you?"
"Well I..."
Then Yoda interrupts him then. He clearly hasn't read them.
How does, "well I" and then him mumbling off mean he hasn't read them?
Hell, there's even a segment in the TLJ VD with a picture of the ancient Jedi texts and it follows with, "Skywalker's studies revealed..."
The books weren't originally in the trees. Luke collected the books from various sources and put them all together.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How does, "well I" and then him mumbling off mean he hasn't read them?Hell, there's even a segment in the TLJ VD with a picture of the ancient Jedi texts and it follows with, "Skywalker's studies revealed..."
The books weren't originally in the trees. Luke collected the books from various
sources and put them all together.
Anyone with a basic understanding of language can understand that. Why the **** else would Yoda be asking "read them have you?" like a teacher asking his student if he did his homework. Do you have a link for the VD leaks, I can't find mine.
Also that doesn't mean shit, I've studied the Paradise Lost, but I've never read them in their entirety.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Official Collector's Edition for The Last Jedi states Luke "consults" the ancient Jedi texts, also.He's absolutely read them.
Link please. And even if he read them, the film makes it clear that it was by no means through to completion.