Originally posted by The EllimistThat isn't my only argument, wtf.
So you admit that your one and only argument isn't actually substantive?Your "mission" has failed tremendously given that everyone is laughing at you and thinks Sidious > Snoke.
Nah, I will continue to push against to make them bleed from Snoke. I force people to lie because they hate me so much. It's quite enjoyable for me to elicit this reaction.
Seriously though Snoke wins. This isn't close. His force powers are on another level.
Originally posted by quanchi112
These guys are superior to Palpatine's guards. We see it first hand.Snoke's power, his ship, his army, his personal ship, and his weapon of mass destruction is greater than Palpatine's power, his weapon of mass destruction, and his army.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Praetorian_Guard
Superior skill in resisting force abilities I would assume 😉
Originally posted by PlacidityYou conceded to my points, ignoramus.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Elite_Praetorian_GuardSuperior skill in resisting force abilities I would assume 😉
Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't my only argument, wtf.Nah, I will continue to push against to make them bleed from Snoke. I force people to lie because they hate me so much. It's quite enjoyable for me to elicit this reaction.
Seriously though Snoke wins. This isn't close. His force powers are on another level.
A complete list of Snoke's feats in TLJ:
- creating a Force bridge between Rey and Kylo (impressive but < lowkey TP'ing the entire Jedi Order, and not directly combat relevant)
- bouncing lightning off the ground to knock back an unarmed Kylo (nothing vs. launching Yoda across the room with lightning)
- easily TK'ing Rey (nothing compared to taking on Yoda, owning the B-team, owning Maul + Oppress together after ragdolling them, etc.)
- extracting thoughts from Rey (uhhh, like Sidious did casually?)
- reading Kylo's thoughts (incorrectly...)
Seriously, none of his feats are mind-blowing, you just walked into the movie with the hope that Snoke was going to be this uber-Palpatine and are desperately trying to rationalize your dreams.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
A complete list of Snoke's feats in TLJ:- creating a Force bridge between Rey and Kylo (impressive but < lowkey TP'ing the entire Jedi Order, and not directly combat relevant)
- bouncing lightning off the ground to knock back an unarmed Kylo (nothing vs. launching Yoda across the room with lightning)
- easily TK'ing Rey (nothing compared to taking on Yoda, owning the B-team, owning Maul + Oppress together after ragdolling them, etc.)
- extracting thoughts from Rey (uhhh, like Sidious did casually?)
- reading Kylo's thoughts (incorrectly...)Seriously, none of his feats are mind-blowing, you just walked into the movie with the hope that Snoke was going to be this uber-Palpatine and are desperately trying to rationalize your dreams.
Palpatine admitted Vader would surpass him in power. He didn't because he's a failure who was maimed by Kenobi. Luke the same Jedi who destroyed Vader says he only felt this kind of raw power twice before. Exclusive feats aren't any valid indicator of anything and are just cool to mention.
The only way to know is to see how these guys match up in terms of power with regards to each other. Yoda parried and redirected the force to prove he's Sidious' force equal. Point taken though these guys are at the top of the food chain prior to Luke since Anakin didn't live up to his potential.
That being said Snoke destroying Rey in force power who Luke scared is what solidifies Snoke's force power superiority. We have never seen someone this powerful just be toyed with and not be a threat in any way, shape or form. Rey's force power is Kylo's equal. Snoke disarms her, extracts intel, and positions her body into doing whatever he wishes.
Palpatine clearly more powerful than Maul is who is an impressive duelist don't get me wrong but his force power is nowhere near as impressive as Rey's or Kylo's. Luke felt Yoda's, Vader's, and Sidious' force power first hand.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine admitted Vader would surpass him in power. He didn't because he's a failure who was maimed by Kenobi. Luke the same Jedi who destroyed Vader says he only felt this kind of raw power twice before. Exclusive feats aren't any valid indicator of anything and are just cool to mention.
OK? Kylo has lots of raw power, what's your point?
The only way to know is to see how these guys match up in terms of power with regards to each other.
It's funny because you were whining about me using "ABC logic" in another thread, but if I had to stop to point out every glaring double standard you've employed I'd quickly surpass the word limit, so eh.
That being said Snoke destroying Rey in force power who Luke scared is what solidifies Snoke's force power superiority.
No, it doesn't. I've explained to you like 100 times that Luke being scared of Rey's potential doesn't mean Rey in TLJ is actually near Luke in practical power, it means he's scared of what she could become. How many more times are you going to repeat this same idiotic talking point?
We have never seen someone this powerful just be toyed with and not be a threat in any way, shape or form. Rey's force power is Kylo's equal. Snoke disarms her, extracts intel, and positions her body into doing whatever he wishes.
So what? Sidious does a similar thing to Dooku by choking him through a hologram, and Dooku has far superior feats, etc. to Kylo or Rey.
Palpatine clearly more powerful than Maul is who is an impressive duelist don't get me wrong but his force power is nowhere near as impressive as Rey's or Kylo's. Luke felt Yoda's, Vader's, and Sidious' force power first hand.
Yes, clearly "raw strength" means "ability to create Force barriers" when there's no evidence she even knows how to. 🙄
Originally posted by The EllimistMore so than anyone else he came into contact with save Ben. That's better by comparison.
OK? Kylo has lots of [b]raw power, what's your point?[/B]
We see them engage each other. Luke doesn't destroy her so we have his opinion and their interaction. Rest is speculation. I'm not saying she can defeat him in a duel but that he compared her power to Ren's as superior to everyone else he's met prior to.It's funny because you were whining about me using "ABC logic" in another thread, but if I had to stop to point out every glaring double standard you've employed I'd quickly surpass the word limit, so eh.
No, it doesn't. I've explained to you like 100 times that Luke being scared of Rey's potential doesn't mean Rey in TLJ is actually near Luke in practical power, it means he's scared of what she could become. How many more times are you going to repeat this same idiotic talking point?
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Dooku was his subservient. It's like me saying look at Snoke force choke Hux. Both have authority over the others and weren't actively trying to harm the other.So what? Sidious does a similar thing to Dooku by choking him through a hologram, and Dooku has far superior feats, etc. to Kylo or Rey.
Yes, clearly "raw strength" means "ability to create Force barriers" when there's no evidence she even knows how to. 🙄 [/B]
She blocked Ren's mind extracting power before she even knew she had force powers. She still didn't know what the force was but instinctively can still defend herself.
Originally posted by quanchi112
More so than anyone else he came into contact with save Ben. That's better by comparison.
So what?
We see them engage each other. Luke doesn't destroy her so we have his opinion and their interaction. Rest is speculation. I'm not saying she can defeat him in a duel but that he compared her power to Ren's as superior to everyone else he's met prior to.
lol
- Superman trashes the Justice League? Who cares, they weren't trying to hurt him!
- Thor struggles against Loki? Who cares, he holds back against him!
- Luke doesn't ragdoll Rey? OMFG REY IZ SO GOOD LUKE SUC
Like it's actually cringey at this point.
Dooku was his subservient. It's like me saying look at Snoke force choke Hux. Both have authority over the others and weren't actively trying to harm the other.
And Maul and Oppress were too? LMAO.
She blocked Ren's mind extracting power before she even knew she had force powers. She still didn't know what the force was but instinctively can still defend herself.
That doesn't mean she can defend herself against a well trained telekinesis user, lol.
BTW even if Snoke were more powerful than Palpatine, that's not enough - he has 30 feet to stop Sidious before he can close the distance. The visual dictionary says Snoke needs guards to defend him because of his frailty, which suggests he can't defeat Sidious in 30 feet because if he could, he wouldn't f*cking need guards against anybody short of Luke.
Originally posted by The EllimistIt is a basis for comparison.
So what?
They were weaker than he is. We also have Batman vs. Superman balls to the wall and the outcome is quite different so the intent clearly matters.
lol- Superman trashes the Justice League? Who cares, they weren't trying to hurt him!
- Thor struggles against Loki? Who cares, he holds back against him!
- Luke doesn't ragdoll Rey? OMFG REY IZ SO GOOD LUKE SUCLike it's actually cringey at this point.
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Loki tried to harm Thor while he beat him easily and they have access to the same realm so who cares if he cuts him.
Rey also wasn't trying to kill Luke so don't act like they it wasn't the same sort of frustration on both ends. You misrepresenting every argument I have is cringey.
He had to outduel two clearly weaker Sith. He didn't have them anywhere near to the degrees of submission as Rey was to Snoke.And Maul and Oppress were too? LMAO.
That doesn't mean she can defend herself against a well trained telekinesis user, lol.
BTW even if Snoke were more powerful than Palpatine, that's not enough - he has 30 feet to stop Sidious before he can close the distance. The visual dictionary says Snoke needs guards to defend him because of his frailty, which suggests he can't defeat Sidious in 30 feet because if he could, he wouldn't f*cking need guards against anybody short of Luke. [/B]
Kylo is well trained. She defended herself against him. Just stop. We see him defend himself against Kylo and Rey. He can force throw Palpatine back a distance or fl him. You're speculating and badly while ignoring what we see in the films. Your interpretations aren't canon.
🙂
Originally posted by quanchi112
It is a basis for comparison.
It's a strawman because I never said Vader > Ben in potential. You have to actually do something with this undisputed statement instead of spamming it in every post.
They were weaker than he is.
Concession accepted on Superman vs. Wonder Woman then, I assume.
We also have Batman vs. Superman balls to the wall and the outcome is quite different so the intent clearly matters.
lmao you're contradicting your own point, then you don't know how Luke would do vs. Rey it his intent were more hostile.
Loki tried to harm Thor while he beat him easily and they have access to the same realm so who cares if he cuts him.
What? The fact is that you didn't like that Thor getting tagged by Loki shows how much slower and weaker than Superman he is, so you pull "holding back" when he was holding back far less than Luke was against Rey.
Rey also wasn't trying to kill Luke so don't act like they it wasn't the same sort of frustration on both ends. You misrepresenting every argument I have is cringey.
No, but she was far more hostile than Luke was. Superman wasn't trying to kill anyone either (as he ignores them once they've been incapacitated rather than finishing them off, and slowly chokes Batman instead of lasering him).
He had to outduel two clearly weaker Sith. He didn't have them anywhere near to the degrees of submission as Rey was to Snoke.
He ragdolled them and threw them against the glass before very visibly and voluntarily letting them go, lmao.
Kylo is well trained. She defended herself against him. Just stop. We see him defend himself against Kylo and Rey.
So? You have done exactly squat to quantify Rey's power in the Force except that she has lots of raw strength. Palpatine meanwhile was taking on Yoda, blitzing several high level Jedi masters at the same time, unbalancing the Force itself, tooling Maul and Oppress together, catching Yoda in elaborate illusions, choking Dooku, etc.
Your obsession with Snoke playing with Rey's lightsaber is embarrassing.
He can force throw Palpatine back a distance or fl him. You're speculating and badly while ignoring what we see in the films. Your interpretations aren't canon.
No, because you need to have a considerable edge in Force power to overpower a prepared foe, and if Snoke could overpower Sidious in 30 feet he wouldn't need guards explicitly for being frail, yet the Visual Dictionary says he does.
Originally posted by The EllimistWell having his ceiling lowered clearly mattered. His abilities were greatly diminished at that point.
It's a strawman because I never said Vader > Ben in potential. You have to actually do something with this undisputed statement instead of spamming it in every post.
Nah, she wins based off her weaponry and skill. Nothing has changed.Concession accepted on Superman vs. Wonder Woman then, I assume.
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I never said I did but when Rey was hostile to Snoke and he wasn't it didn't matter. He toyed with her whereas Luke didn't. That is the point you foolishly fumble over in your delusional ways. Snoke was so far above he didn't have to smite her as soon as possible because she wasn't a threat to him.lmao you're contradicting your own point, then you don't know how Luke would do vs. Rey it his intent were more hostile.
What? The fact is that you didn't like that Thor getting tagged by Loki shows how much slower and weaker than Superman he is, so you pull "holding back" when he was holding back far less than Luke was against Rey.
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Batman had the speed and reactions to tag Superman therefore a faster, more experienced, and more powerful character with super strength destroys Superman but that's off topic. Keep it here.
Luke defended himself and she wasn't trying to kill him and stopped after she ignited the lightsaber and he fell backward.
No, but she was far more hostile than Luke was. Superman wasn't trying to kill anyone either (as he ignores them once they've been incapacitated rather than finishing them off, and slowly chokes Batman instead of lasering him).He ragdolled them and threw them against the glass before very visibly and voluntarily letting them go, lmao.
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He was fighting them while she was trying to talk him out of fighting. Luke fought her. He disarmed her and and then fell back after she continued with a lightsaber.
That has to do with dueling abilities not overall power. He had to outduel the Jedi masters but who cares. They clearly aren't impressive and we see Windu who is clearly less force powerful than Sidious beat him. Sidious's dueling and force peppers weren't enough. Shame.
So? You have done exactly squat to quantify Rey's power in the Force except that she has lots of raw strength. Palpatine meanwhile was taking on Yoda, blitzing several high level Jedi masters at the same time, unbalancing the Force itself, tooling Maul and Oppress together, catching Yoda in elaborate illusions, choking Dooku, etc.Your obsession with Snoke playing with Rey's lightsaber is embarrassing.
No, because you need to have a considerable edge in Force power to overpower a prepared foe, and if Snoke could overpower Sidious in 30 feet he wouldn't need guards explicitly for being frail, yet the Visual Dictionary says he does. [/B]
Palpatine is Yoda's force equal. We see an exchange of powers and a stalemate.
Snoke disarms his opponent at will while Windu someone inferior in the force had him begging for his life fumbling on the ground like a beaten snake.
Snoke does have a considerable force edge in power. He can do it right in front of him. He has guards just as Sidious did. He defended himself against Rey while waving his guards off.
Snoke destroys him.
Originally posted by PlacidityWhen did Yoda fight Snoke's guards ? There's no way someone who uses this absurd logic can be successful in life. There's no way. All guards are created equal with the same abilities because rancid said so. If they are guards in the Star Wars universe they are created in a factor with the same abilities.
Kylo struggling with a few of the leader's guards? You know, the type that Yoda *literally* casually handwaves away.
Just for fun we see Kenobi and Qui run from droids in Phantom Menace. 😂
We see Anakin and Kenobi captured in Rots. We see Anakin captured in AOTC. Need I go on ?