Originally posted by quanchi112
I quoted the director himself to put this to bed. Kylo only attacked when he's distracted which proves his reactions are just fine. Disagree with the director and pick and choose what comments you choose to build your biased case around all night and all day.
Right, my point was that using Serkis' quotes to explain what happened in the movie when nothing in the movie really went out of its way to suggest that is okay.
She did receive training though so you were inaccurate. Luke hardly had any training from Yoda and still look decent against Vader in ESB. In the end Luke was overwhelmed in the fight but Vader was impressed and his shoulder was grazed despite Luke's inexperience. Rey was completely outclassed to the point of total domination. That's why I say Snoke is outside of these debates because he's simply too powerful.
I don't know about that. Luke managed to get a strike on Vader while he was lightsaber fighting. But Vader was completely making an idiot out of Luke when he was throwing objects at him with the Force. So I think he might have been able to ragdoll Luke if that's what he's wanted to do. Not with ease, but maybe he could have. And I could argue about how Luke is more powerful than Rey, but that's not important (and probably not true) because the new movies seem to pretty much ignore all that came before them. They don't care too much about consistency.
You ignore his comments as well. I'm consistent in that he can have body deficiencies but that the force can negate those once he taps into it like Yoda, Vader, etc.
Somehow his shoes are simply too much while Vader needs a suit just to survive while you completely ignore that obvious double standard.
You're consistent in ways Disney is not consistent in.
The old lore would have suggested that the New Republic were the big ones, the old lore would have suggested that Luke wouldn't have pulled a weapon on a sleeping child, the old lore would have suggested that you can't hit another object in hyperspace, the old lore would have suggested that you can't come back as a force ghost using the dark side, and the old lore would have suggested that the dark and light sides of the Force can't be used together. Yet here we are with Disney.
They don't care about what happened in the Original Trilogy, as far as the lore goes. They only care about introducing cool story elements. So going off of "this happened in the original trilogy, and by comparison in the sequel trilogy, this conclusion can be derived", doesn't really work. At least that's what I think.
If he's in pain I said that's fine because it didn't cause the result to be any different. He manipulated her at will so he's got pain tolerance.
You can see a facial expression or a sound to show pain. If you can't tell when someone is in pain I bet you've never seen a sporting event, been inside a nursing home, witnessed someone scream aloud in pain or anything. Don't be silly.
Snoke dominates so whether he is in pain or not it doesn't detract from how he interacts with younger powerful force users.
But then why include this as a part of the story? Him being in pain is something which makes him more vulnerable. Now he hides it, and tolerates that pain, but it's bound to mean bad things for him at some point. Originally, I think they were going to make that his weakness, his physical deficiencies, but then Rian Johnson came along.
I didn't ignore anything in fact I've accepted it all. Snoke can be both in pain no the most powerful force user. I accept his body is old and frail with many risks but when we see him in action he's more than adequate.
Their brainstorms aren't canon but again I don't dispute anything I simply say both can be true. Based off Serkis Snoke is more powerful than Sidious and Anakin. Canon according to you since Serkis said it.
I wouldn't consider that "in action". I mean he's not the kind of guy who can, I think, traverse rocky places or walk properly through hard terrain, which most healthy people easily would. A walk in the park isn't a walk in the park for him. He can't duel with a lightsaber. He can't go wherever he wants and do whatever he wants. His physicality provides that limit, no matter how powerful he is with the force.
Yes, Snoke is more powerful than Sidious and Vader, but what does that prove? why do you keep bringing it up? Lore consistency, doesn't seem to be all that important to Disney and so what if he's more powerful than Sidious or Vader? He's not as injured as either of them. Vader has that suit to keep him moving. Snoke only has a very frail body.
See you're lying here. Yes, he needs security because he isn't going to risk galactic domination to chance. Any powerful leader will have security on deck. Ffs just consider the secret service and then imagine someone with galactic authority and try to tell me this guy would just walk around daring anyone to pick him off. This makes no sense to even that of a child with no concept of how the world works.
Palpatine didn't need guards. Any threat the guards could take care of, he could take care of. And he certainly didn't need that giant array of stormtroopers when he arrived at the second death star. But he had it. For formality.
Snoke on the other hand, uses guards to protect him. He stays hidden, away from almost all people, on a moving base. And the two that actually do get to see him see a hologram which is 30 feet tall. He is paranoid. He is worried for his safety, because he can't take care of himself all that well.
Sidious had two guards try to attack Yoda but fail. Snoke called his guards back while he dominates Rey.
He called his guards back because Rey wasn't all that big of a threat. He knew he could ragdoll her. Yoda is comparitively more powerful. Palp's guards weren't expecting it, weren't as powerful as Snoke's guards, and got defeated easily but Palpatine doesn't care, because he can take care of Yoda himself, or just escape.
Snoke on the other hand can do niether of those things when an actual threat walks into the room (which is likely to never happen, as he's made sure). This all shows that Snoke is worried for his life. He is capable of being assassinated more easily than most people are. Force user or not.
False. They aren't violating the old rules. We already see Snoke show he's more than quick enough to chump both Ren and Rey when he's focused on them. I quoted the director who said Ren only took the chance because Snoke was distracted.
They are SO violating the old rules.
Aside fom that, Snoke is vulnerable. If he was like Palpatine in Lords of the Sith, he could have gone on ground himself and taken care of Luke, but his physiology prevents that. That's why he's not as capable. He's more powerful in the the Force than Luke, but wouldn't win in a one-to-one fight.