Darth Plagueis vs Dark Revan

Originally posted by Azronger
Plagueis wins sabers via feats like training Palpatine and beating him in sparring matches for pure skill

Any well-trained Sith could instruct Palpatine in the art of lightsaber combat. Sparring matches are also training sessions and do not tell us much.

Originally posted by Azronger
punching through armor with his bare hands while in a horrendous condition and far before his prime for strength,

Originally posted by Azronger
and running so fast that droids have trouble perceiving him and general proximity to TPM Palpatine who has speedblitzed Maul for speed. Revan has no comparable feats in any category.

Revan had no trouble in reacting to astonishingly fast Force-users such as Darth Marr.*

*Darth Marr could move so fast that even a well-trained Force-user found it virtually impossible to track his move. Droid be damned.

Revan's battle precognition is absolutely fantastic.

Originally posted by Azronger
Plagueis stomps the Force round via feats like

Originally posted by Azronger
being able to touch the minds of every single living thing in the galaxy,

Originally posted by Azronger
causing global weather phenomena on Naboo with his power,

Originally posted by Azronger
meriting the attention and direct intervention of the Force itself due to his power,

The Force merited attention towards Dark Revan as well.

Originally posted by Azronger
overpowering the will of the Force itself

Originally posted by Azronger
and unbalancing the galaxy to the dark side for overall power

Originally posted by Azronger
being able to block lightsaber hits without even hand gestures

Originally posted by Azronger
and create fortress-sized Force Barriers via Banite scaling,

Originally posted by Azronger
rendering him virtually untouchable, for Force defence;

Originally posted by Azronger
being able to manipulate midi-chlorians and gain a godlike scope of abilities like command over life and death on his fingertips, infinite regeneration without even erecting active Force defences and so on for OP hax; etc. Plagueis is orders of magnitude beyond anyone before him.

Originally posted by Azronger
Plagueis stomps all out via one-shotting Revan right off the batvwith his overwhelming power, or by swiftly and deftly outdueling him with superior skill, strength and speed.

Plagueis wins.

Originally posted by Stigma
Plagueis wins.

Sorry LeG, not gonna ever debate you again. Decided that a while ago.

We'll rekindle the Plagueis > Valkorion movement soon so this individual Revan thread pointless anyway.

^^^

Cop-out.

Lol

Christ. Speed feats like Marr's are generic, as are Palpatine's and Plagueis'.

Characters have moved faster than security camera's can see or so quickly that other (more powerful) force users see them as blurs. Someone needs to make a blog about the ridiculous force speed arguments.

Palpatine can't really speedblitz many notable people. Neither can Plagueis.

Except when Palps speed blitzed the B-team.

Originally posted by samappo
Except when Palps speed blitzed the B-team.

It was a little bit of trickery and telepathic f.uckery.

Kit lasted two seconds, he got speed blitzed. Windu is described as not being able to react.

Originally posted by Not_a_sock
Christ. Speed feats like Marr's are generic, as are Palpatine's and Plagueis'.

Characters have moved faster than security camera's can see or so quickly that other (more powerful) force users see them as blurs. Someone needs to make a blog about the ridiculous force speed arguments.

Palpatine can't really speedblitz many notable people. Neither can Plagueis.

Palpatine speedblitzed Maul multiple times.

@DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Azronger
Palpatine speedblitzed Maul multiple times.

But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed.

– Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy

"You know, getting taken out by Sidious is pretty good, ranks up there. He puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did, I'll say that much for him."

– Dave Filoni

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Point is that Leland Chee did not endorse that blurb. Otherwise, he would have provided a clear answer.

??? Chee doesn't endorse 99% of authorial statements. He didn't deny it either.

Secondly; that blurb was planted by the publisher on the back cover of the original print of the novel. However, reprint of the same novel feature a different blurb on its back cover from the same publisher. Therefore, no consistency in such promotion. Nonetheless, context behind the hype of Darth Plagueis is his midichlorian manipulation talent.

Bullsh*t. Where is it suggested that "most powerful sith lord who ever lived" means "good at midichlorian manipulation" and nothing more?

The fact that there were other publisher blurbs is irrelevant.

Third; author of the novel did not bother to rank Darth Plagueis because this was not essential to his storytelling.

Plagueis in the book questions whether he's as powerful as the ancient sith, then he realizes he can figure out sorcery by sheer will, unbalances the Force, enhances his own midichlorian count...and suddenly he thinks he's more powerful than any sith before him. Then the blurb just happens to confirm it from a third person PoV. It's pretty clear to me that Plagueis > all prior sith, there are like three independent statements/implications in the text, lawl.

Objectively, there isn't a sound case for Darth Plagueis to be ranked above Vitiate, even at par.

Nonsense. In addition to the blurb statement and Plagueis's own self-evaluation, he and Sidious posed a cosmological threat to the Force to an extent that Vitiate never did. Vitiate did not need the Jesus of the SW universe to defeat.

The publishing company's blurb's canonicity isn't in question, the attempt to use it as an objective canonical binding statement beyond any discussion is.

Vitiate had the capacity to end the galaxy and become a God. Nor is the imbalancing feat what you prop it up to be. Fvcking Traya could've fatally wounded the Force, nevermind aid in shifting its alignment.

Honestly, this desperate clinging to that feat is getting sad.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Bullsh*t. Where is it suggested that "most powerful sith lord who ever lived" means "good at midichlorian manipulation" and nothing more?

The blurb also states, "But like no Sith Lord ever, he possesses the ultimate power—over life and death."

I imagine there's a connection, there.

Not that it matters, though.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The publishing company's blurb's canonicity isn't in question, the attempt to use it as an objective canonical binding statement beyond any discussion is.

I don't think anyone here has done that. Rather, the blurb is just another piece of evidence that leads us to the same conclusion: Plagueis's own musings, the cosmic threat to the Force, powerscaling from Sidious, etc.

Vitiate had the capacity to end the galaxy and become a God.

With a nexus + a thousand years of prep + a galactic war, sure. Plagueis just meditated for a month.

Nor is the imbalancing feat what you prop it up to be.

The Force disagrees. But let's break it down more substantively:

1. Tenebrous's master, who by Banite scaling is weaker than Tenebrous and Plagueis, pierces the galaxy wide light side nexus generated by the combined Jedi Order.

2. Plagueis and Sidious, both before their primes, knock the Force off balance with about a month of meditation. This is described as a cosmic shift in the Force.

3. Plagueis uses midichlorian manipulation to enhance his own Force potential.

4. Due to the above and Plagueis's attempt to create life, the Force births the literal Chosen One to defeat the two Sith - like, the most powerful being in Star Wars history.

5. On Plagueis's death, Sidious receives a massive power boost that further shifts the balance of the Force to the point where the orbits of celestial bodies are described as being altered.

Yeah, even if you don't think it's enough to prove Plagueis > Vitiate by itself, in combination with the blurb and Plagueis's own conclusion I think it's a pretty safe bet.

Fvcking Traya could've fatally wounded the Force, nevermind aid in shifting its alignment.

You're welcome to prove that she could actually have done it.

Honestly, this desperate clinging to that feat is getting sad.

It's not "desperate", lol, it's like the catalyst for the central struggle in the Star Wars mythos. Plagueis and Sidious were literally cosmological threats at a level the Force had never seen before.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Plagueis just meditated for a month.

In response to SW Legengs's criticism of sparring. A vast majority of the best duelists of the Jedi Order were spawned from just sparring. Yoda, Windu, Plo Koon, Qui-Gon etc. Not to mention the arguably best duelist in the mythos, Sidious, fought like three legit Saber duels in his whole life.