Originally posted by darthbane77
1: Not really. All it's indicative of is a level of power that both Sidious and Plagueis can achieve when they pour all their power into a single use of the Force for months on end, which again, multiplies the power used in the ritual exponentially. The individual power usable by either Sith at any given time in a normal circumstance, is VASTLY lower than what was used in the end of the ritual.
Valk, even with his most grandiose rituals, with the resources of two empires and countless willing minions supporting him, and has never done anything remotely as impressive as bending the will of the Force, even with thousands of years to pull it off. In contrast, vastly pre-prime Plagueis and Sidious pulled it off. As Az pointed out in the blog, Plagueis would go on to become so much more powerful he should be capable of replicating the meditation on his own.
The implications of Plagueis and Sidious' actions being so severe that the Force miraculously conceived a being with power to rival The Father just to stop them, just to "re-balance" the Force. So sorry, but it's just a plain better feat.
Originally posted by darthbane77
2: Learning to manipulate midichlorians is more effective in (possibly) combat, and just in general is more useful. The ability itself isn't an indicator of having greater power than was required for the meditation. It's a greater achievement because it's more useful, nothing more.
There is no question of it's combat effectiveness: destroying midichlorians is "far easier" than creating them, according to Plagueis, and yet, Plagueis could incite his midichlorians to heal damaged tissue, while drunk and ambushed, that he could heal himself faster than Sidious' most powerful lightning could damage him. So, logically, Plagueis, while not drunk and combat-ready, should be able to kill off the midichlorians of damn near anyone who can't defend from it, and just as quickly heal himself.
But as for your criticism, no, it's not a greater achievement because "it's more useful", which isn't said anywhere in the book. It's a greater achievement, and required Plagueis to grow more powerful, because it was plainly more difficult to do than the meditation. Quote:
No counterforce had risen against them. In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended.On the same day they had allowed Venamis to die.
Then, by manipulating the Bith's midi-chlorians, which should have been inert and unresponsive, Plagueis had resurrected him. The enormity of the event had stunned Sidious into silence and overwhelmed and addled 11-4D's processors, but Plagueis had carried on without assistance, again and again allowing Venamis to die and be returned to life, until the Bith's organs had given out and Plagueis had finally granted him everlasting death.
But having gained the power to keep another alive hadn't been enough for him. And so after Sidious had returned to Coruscant, he had devoted himself to internalizing that ability, by manipulating the midi-chlorians that animated him. For several months he made no progress, but ultimately he began to perceive a measured change. The scars that had grown over his wounds had abruptly begun to soften and fade, and he had begun to breathe more freely than he had in twenty years. He began to sense that not only were his damaged tissues healing, but his entire body was rejuvinating itself. Beneath the transpirator, areas of his skin were smooth and youthful, and he knew that eventually he would cease to age altogether.
Drunk on newfound power, then, he had attempted an even more unthinkable act: to bring into being a creation of his own. Not merely the impregnation of some hapless, mindless creature, but the birth of a Forceful being. The ability to dominate death had been a step in the right direction, but it wasn't equivalent to pure creation. And so he had stretched out-indeed, as if invisible, transubstantiated-to inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them: Muunoid or insectoid, secure or dispossessed, free or enslaved. A warrior waving a banner in triumph on a battlefield. A ghost infiltrating a dream.
But ultimately to no end.
The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases.
Regardless, eight long years later, Plagueis remained convinced that he was on the verge of absolute success. The evidence was in his own increased midi-chlorian count; and in the power he sensed in Sidious when he had finally returned to Sojourn. The dark side of the Force was theirs to command, and in partnership they would someday be able to keep each other alive, and to rule the galaxy for as long as they saw fit.
So do you understand now?
1. The meditation itself is more profound, with farther reaching implications and more impressive than anything Valk has done, even with all of his best rituals.
2. The meditation was less impressive than what proceeded, the resurrection of Venamis which "stunned Sidious into silence", which left Plagueis "drunk on newfound power." Further evidence of his increasing power and mastery was "his own increased midichlorian count."
Plagueis became exponentially more powerful in the 8 years after the meditation, and after that, he still had what is at least 2-5 years of growth before we get to TPM itself. So at minimum a full decade before his prime.
Originally posted by darthbane77
3: As Ant said, Valkorion doesn't rely on the midichlorians of his host body, as is plainly evident by the observation that Vitiate's power doesn't seem to fluctuate depending on his host. All his strength is in himself, in his spirit, which is supported by the fact that Valkorion is stated to be an entity. So midichlorian manipulation, more than likely, would have little to no effect on Valkorion. As for knowledge, the ancient Sith and Jedi are confirmed more than once to have access to powers that were lost later down the line, the most famous example being that most of the knowledge Kun possessed was lost upon his death, and (to my knowledge) there is no confirmation that said knowledge was ever recovered.
Hence why I said "short of fighting as a disembodied entity." However, if we make a thread, and the goal of the thread is for Valk to keep his physical body alive, Plagueis would surely win.
As Az pointed out, Plagueis was well aware of the ancient's greatest feats, including Essence Transfer, Necromancy, saturation of an entire planet with dark side energy, creating illusions, creating alchemical monstrosities, and as noted in Darth Plagueis, "compel stars to explode, or induce paralysis in crowds, as Exar Kun apparently did to select members of the Republic Senate." He was also aware of weather manipulation, flight, invisibility and teleportation... and you know what Plagueis had to say, in spite of knowing all these abilities exist, in spite of knowing exactly who Exar Kun and Vitiate are, once he went Neo and broke the source code of the Matrix Force? Quote:
If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.
And why was he so confident? Because, as echoed by Darth Wyyrlok III centuries later, nothing was outside of Plagueis' grasp once he could exert his will upon on the Force. Not in the mundane sense... in the sense that his will can subvert the will of the Force and tap into the source code, the midichlorians themselves, and alter them. Because Plagueis has essentially hacked the Force itself, there are no abilities he cannot learn.
But Plagueis now understood that Tenebrous had been wrong about sorcery, as he had been wrong about so many things. Yes, the gift was strongest in those who, with scant effort, could allow themselves to be subsumed by the currents of the Force and become conduits for the powers of the dark side. But there was an alternative path to those abilities, and it led from a place where the circle closed on itself and sheer will substituted for selflessness. Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn’t master through an effort of will."Darth Plagueis