Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke>>>SidiousRen>>>Vader
Poe Dameron>>>Han Solo
Starkiller>>>Death Star
Supremacy>>>Executor
Conclusion:NT>>>Ot.
BAAAHAHAHAHAHA!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Of all the ridiculous things I've heard you say, this tops them all.
Snoke >>> Sidious. So? Sidious was never defeated by the heroes. The prophecy said that the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force. It was pretty much a matter of when and how, and the way it happened was a story which packed the greatest emotional punch in cinematic history (arguably). Snoke being more powerful means nothing, especially since the Last Jedi. He was just in the way, honestly. Kylo is much less powerful, but makes for a much better villain. And Palpatine's entire essense was very different from what most villains'. He and his defeat were more metaphorical than a story. The story itself, mind you, is interesting and different as well. Snoke is just another big bad at the end who wants to kill the good guys for a reason so pointless, even the movie makers don't care about it. And it's never even revealed to the audience. He's set up well, but ends up bland.
Ren is better than Vader? Your opinion, but he's defenitely not more powerful, or intimidating. Maybe more interesting if that's your opinion, but to just strait-up claim Vader is <<< Ren is ludicrous.
Oh, and Poe better than Solo? What kind of development does Poe get? He starts out reckless and rogue-ish, and then gets a little more responsible. That's like the life story of every 18 year old. And Solo starts out a selfish smuggler, and then turns selfless realizing the importance of it (Which happens to be the same as Finn's story btw). I guess you could debate which is better, but the answer is clear to me.
Starkiller >>> Death star...So what? So what, now they have a bigger ball in the sky which essentially served as a single plot element and then was taken out of the story immediately. The Death Star served as a reminder to the people of the galaxy that the empire was in charge and to be feared. The destruction of it was showing the galaxy hope, and one step in bringing down the empire, and started the events of Empire Strikes Back, which goes into it's own philosophical walks of thought. There was no tension when the Starkiller was being destroyed. There was NO doubt in anyone's mind that it was gonna happen. It didn't really show anyone anything. Snoke himself seemed pretty chill about its destruction.
Although I will admit, I like what they did with the supremacy
And the conclusion is just asinine. Bigger is better. It's not the characters, or the lessons, or the plot, or the questions raised, or the flow of the story, or the cinematography, or the innovation, no no no, it's the size of things, and not even the metaphorical size, but the physical size. Unbelievable!
Originally posted by ZentrexNeither was Snoke but hey Vader did turn Jedi so a hero did kill him tbh. This has nothing to do with my point.
BAAAHAHAHAHAHA!AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Of all the ridiculous things I've heard you say, this tops them all.
Snoke >>> Sidious. So? Sidious was never defeated by the heroes.
Snoke being more powerful means he's more powerful. I don't care about storytelling for the purposes of my point which you agree with so who cares.
The prophecy said that the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force. It was pretty much a matter of when and how, and the way it happened was a story which packed the greatest emotional punch in cinematic history (arguably). Snoke being more powerful means nothing, especially since the Last Jedi. He was just in the way, honestly. Kylo is much less powerful, but makes for a much better villain.[/B]
Basically you're trying to argue by telling me what you prefer more. I don't care about your personal opinion on what's cooler I'm arguing based off the facts with regards to power levels.
And Palpatine's entire essense was very different from what most villains'. He and his defeat were more metaphorical than a story. The story itself, mind you, is interesting and different as well. Snoke is just another big bad at the end who wants to kill the good guys for a reason so pointless, even the movie makers don't care about it. And it's never even revealed to the audience. He's set up well, but ends up bland. [/B]
He is definitely more powerful as per Luke. Luke felt Vader's power and he puts Rey and Ren in a higher class. Now you could make a case for pre suited Vader since that was prior to Luke's birth but I do believe we are both just discussing Vader from the Ot films. Talk to Luke.
Ren is better than Vader? Your opinion, but he's defenitely not more powerful, or intimidating. Maybe more interesting if that's your opinion, but to just strait-up claim Vader is <<< Ren is ludicrous.[/B]
More skilled as a pilot I don't arguing preferences unless I'm shit talking to rile some feathers.Oh, and Poe better than Solo? What kind of development does Poe get? He starts out reckless and rogue-ish, and then gets a little more responsible. That's like the life story of every 18 year old. And Solo starts out a selfish smuggler, and then turns selfless realizing the importance of it (Which happens to be the same as Finn's story btw). I guess you could debate which is better, but the answer is clear to me.
[/B]
Again I'm talking in terms of power and you're going off on a tangent discussing story elements. I don't care what you like more or worked better in a film according to you. Entirely separate issue than my point.
Starkiller >>> Death star...So what? So what, now they have a bigger ball in the sky which essentially served as a single plot element and then was taken out of the story immediately. The Death Star served as a reminder to the people of the galaxy that the empire was in charge and to be feared. The destruction of it was showing the galaxy hope, and one step in bringing down the empire, and started the events of Empire Strikes Back, which goes into it's own philosophical walks of thought. There was no tension when the Starkiller was being destroyed. There was NO doubt in anyone's mind that it was gonna happen. It didn't really show anyone anything. Snoke himself seemed pretty chill about its destruction.
[/B]
My overall point is the ships, characters, tech, etc. is superior and more powerful than their Ot counterparts.
Although I will admit, I like what they did with the supremacyAnd the conclusion is just asinine. Bigger is better. It's not the characters, or the lessons, or the plot, or the questions raised, or the flow of the story, or the cinematography, or the innovation, no no no, it's the size of things, and not even the metaphorical size, but the physical size. Unbelievable! [/B]
Quan, you said that the Original trilogy is not as good as the Sequel Trilogy, because the sequel trilogy has "more powerful" things. And I know I made a lot of other points, but the reason I thought your argument was so ridiculous was that you thought that just because the sequel trilogy has things which are bigger/more powerful, it makes it better.
More powerful is kind of subjective isn't it? I mean, if your story takes place in 2000 BC, then a flood is a powerful force. More so than a Tsunami in a story which takes place in the year 4000 AD. So, porportionately, the stakes aren't higher. So in a way, since EVERYTHING is upgraded, nothing might as well be upgraded. See my point?
Originally posted by ZentrexThat isn't the reason I prefer the newer trilogy I'm just saying that to rub it in. I do prefer those characters to the originals save Luke over Rey. Rey never did anything for me. I don't argue preferences though because it's like saying red is a cooler color than blue. Who the **** cares. I've said TFA is better than ANH and that TLJ is better than ESB or Rotj. The newer trilogy has given me too of my top three fav. characters. Snoke is my number one hands down. Ot never had any characters I really loved. Part of the reason I never had any nostalgia for the Ot.
Quan, you said that the Original trilogy is not as good as the Sequel Trilogy, because the sequel trilogy has "more powerful" things. And I know I made a lot of other points, but the reason I thought your argument was so ridiculous was that you thought that just because the sequel trilogy has things which are bigger/more powerful, it makes it better.
No, since we can determine what is more powerful. Starkiller base is said in the film to be more powerful than the Death Star. We know the ships, tech, etc. has improved for the First Order so we have verification. The Star Wars visual dictionary also reiterates the obvious.More powerful is kind of subjective isn't it? I mean, if your story takes place in 2000 BC, then a flood is a powerful force. More so than a Tsunami in a story which takes place in the year 4000 AD. So, porportionately, the stakes aren't higher. So in a way, since EVERYTHING is upgraded, nothing might as well be upgraded. See my point? [/B]
You can prove it but arguing what you like more is purely subjective and a waste of time. I love Snoke you may not. Who cares ?
Originally posted by Zentrex
Alright, if you personally like those characters more, I can't argue.But, really though, this weird thing that disney's trying to do by scaling everything up without scaling up the actual threat to make it look like it's bigger when really it doesn't matter is just a cheap trick.
Yeah I noticed that, but who knows maybe in Ep 9 we'll see more and hopefully things will add up.
Though those walkers have a very, very noticeable and clearly exposed weak spot with those generators.
Originally posted by TrocityThey don't need to be larger in scale. Their ships are far superior, ground troops, artillery, weapons of mass destruction such as Starkiller base. Dreadnoughts would completely blow their inferior destroyers out of space.
The First Order isn't bigger and better than the Empire, unfortunately. Even if the tech is better, the Empire had more star destroyers than the First Order has ships, period. (25,000)
A bigger army loses to a massively more powerful and technically advanced one. First Order would pound the empire into submission.
Originally posted by TrocityIt is like saying we have more fighter jets and someone saying we have nuclear weapons with better and fewer jets while acting like the outcome is in question. Rebellion seemed to manage just fine by the way. Ewoks, dude.
Yeah, the technological advancement of 3 decades was so astronomical it makes up for the fact that the Empire probably wouldn't even find the puny First Order amidst a sea of its own vessels. 😂
Starkiller base would take out five planets at a time. Sidious wouldn't take them directly on he'd know better. Snoke wouldn't care he'd brutalize the empire.