Originally posted by quanchi112
Presence resides in all of reality whereas Thanos has shown able to absorb all of reality. Logic wins the day.
No you small minded child.
It’s all being retcon that everything Thanos did was just effecting one Universe.
Also, the Presence is not limited to staying in one Multiverse. Go back and read Lucifer. The Presence left the Multiverse, and Michael had to become the new focal point by merging with everything.
So is this "pre-retcon" HOTI or "post retcon?'" .... Akhenaten, who was only tapping the HOTI, not only raped Eternity/Infinity, but one-shot killed all the Skyfathers who were located in a Distant universe away /outside 616, PLUS AK's personal sanctuary was a blending of universeS, ... yeah, only "tappig." Thanos merged with the HOTI, stomping AK, absorbing Gamora and Atleza who were outside 616 with Warlock (his survival was due to his unique nature) and also eating the simultaneously existing in all MultiverseS LT. If this isn't a pissing contest, then the scale of Thanos' final absorption is irrelevant since the true feat is eaily erasing the current most powerful entity in the omniverse. We KNOW Thanos was FAR beyond universal regardless of the magnitude of his final absorption. Let's not forget, he bonded, became everything in the Omniverse, but Starlin kept the meat of the story relating to 616. Still Thanos travelled outside 616 when he stomped AK's PAST-self in Reality-4321. (representing an alternate 1331 BC) Thanos also remade a Reality situated in a PAST 2000 yearS before 4321, so that the "Celestial Order" never found the HOTI. So the HOTI empowered Thanos was God-like outside 616 unquestionably. @ My post is based on "pre-retcon" HOTI.
Originally posted by Mr Master
So is this "pre-retcon" HOTI or "post retcon?'" .... Akhenaten, who was only tapping the HOTI, not only raped Eternity/Infinity, but one-shot killed all the Skyfathers who were located in a Distant universe away /outside 616, PLUS AK's personal sanctuary was a blending of universeS, ... yeah, only "tappig." Thanos merged with the HOTI, stomping AK, absorbing Gamora and Atleza who were outside 616 with Warlock (his survival was due to his unique nature) and also eating the simultaneously existing in all MultiverseS LT. If this isn't a pissing contest, then the scale of Thanos' final absorption is irrelevant since the true feat is eaily erasing the current most powerful entity in the omniverse. We KNOW Thanos was FAR beyond universal regardless of the magnitude of his final absorption. Let's not forget, he bonded, became everything in the Omniverse, but Starlin kept the meat of the story relating to 616. Still Thanos travelled outside 616 when he stomped AK's PAST-self in Reality-4321. (representing an alternate 1331 BC) Thanos also remade a Reality situated in a PAST 2000 yearS before 4321, so that the "Celestial Order" never found the HOTI. So the HOTI empowered Thanos was God-like outside 616 unquestionably. @ My post is based on "pre-retcon" HOTI.
As to the thread, it don't matter post or pre retcon, Thanos with the HotU wins.
Originally posted by SquallXMikey Carey stated its just one universe with different etc. to it. Thanos absorbs the presence very easily.
No you small minded child.It’s all being retcon that everything Thanos did was just effecting one Universe.
Also, the Presence is not limited to staying in one Multiverse. Go back and read Lucifer. The Presence left the Multiverse, and Michael had to become the new focal point by merging with everything.
Thanos was able to overpower the Living Tribunal who is the Second Most Powerful Entity in the Marvel Omniverse. In pure power level, Thanos with HOTU should be able to defeat Lucifer Morningstar.
That being said, the two advantages that Lucifer Morningstar would have are:
1. Thanos was pretty much manipulated by TOAA to use the HOTU as part of whatever cosmic flaw was needed to be corrected to reset the timeline, including 616 and the local multiverse.
2. Lucifer Morningstar existed for over 10 Billion Years. His knowledge and experience far surpasses Thanos'. What Thanos accomplished as a biological being is far more impressive than what Lucifer Morningstar has proportionately accomplished. Still, Lucifer has the mind, experience, and natural cosmic awareness that Thanos has taken longer to catch up with.
This one is really close. Not sure who takes this...
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos doesn't need the HOTU to destroy Lucy.
Right, because it wouldn't make any difference against Lucifer.
You're putting a mutant alien with universal reality warping, up against the literal equivalent of the demiurgic might of God himself.
There is no one above Lucifer, except God himself- i.e. The Presence.
He is able to casually create multiverses, and exist simply above concepts of dimensions within the Overvoid. Meaning he is literally infinitely above beings such as Mandrakk, Cosmic Armor Superman, Mr. Myx, etc.
Lucifer could literally just send Thanos' soul straight to Hell, where he would be tormented for all eternity. Or simply just unmake Thanos and his entire multiverse with a thought.
Lucifer is conceptually above any/every being, other than God himself.
Thanos is nothing in comparison, lol. Even with the IG, HOTU, etc, all at once. That'd be like putting an ant up against an exploding sun, and giving the ant a wooden sword and chain mail armor.
This quite literally wouldn't even register as a blip on Lucifer's radar, as Thanos and his entire multiverse were swept into nothingness with a single though.
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The way Mike Carey intended "Multiverse" is in fact "Universe", in the battle forum definition, which means a Single Reality by Marvel's definition...Lucifer isn't Universal in power.
Michael is Universal in power and Lucifer just can shape it...
1. You made that up.
2. Wrong.
3. Uh, no.
Lucifer is literally the will of God. He has created multiverses in the past, and literally exists outside of creation itself, within the Overvoid. His brother Michael is his only equal, and the Presence(Yaweh) is his only superior.
He's literally able to do anything, other than create something from nothing. Meaning he can destroy anything, on any scale. His powers of creation simply require that he has access to "creation", meaning he can change energy into matter, or vice-versa. He simply can't create something from "nothing". This is the only limit to his power, aside from being below Yaweh.
I don't think you realize the scope of Morningstar. He is literally the shaper of creation, that exists in a realm which is inconceivable to anything within creation- other than his brother and father.
Yaweh > Lucifer ~ Michael > Everything else
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
[B]1. You made that up.2. Wrong.
3. Uh, no.
I have already shown the tweets of Mike Carey on the topic. There is no debate possible about it.
Lucifer is literally the will of God. He has created multiverses in the past, and literally exists outside of creation itself, within the Overvoid. His brother Michael is his only equal, and the Presence(Yaweh) is his only superior.He's literally able to do anything, other than create something from nothing. Meaning he can destroy anything, on any scale. His powers of creation simply require that he has access to "creation", meaning he can change energy into matter, or vice-versa. He simply can't create something from "nothing". This is the only limit to his power, aside from being below Yaweh.
I don't think you realize the scope of Morningstar. He is literally the shaper of creation, that exists in a realm which is inconceivable to anything within creation- other than his brother and father.
Yaweh > Lucifer ~ Michael > Everything else
Blah blah blah 100% bullshit like usual.
Nothing to debate.