Sentry (Siege) vs Superman Prime (Guardian amped)

Originally posted by cdtm
"If I was up to it." Means unable to kill him, not unwilling.

Agreed.

In RW response he changed the wording from "up to it" to "up for it", and the definition he posted followed suit.

Here's the definitions for "up to it" from the same site.

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/up-to-something

The 4th definition matches best with the text and u'r interpretation IMHO.

4 well enough, strong enough, or good enough to do something
She’s supposed to leave the hospital tomorrow, but I don’t think she’s up to it.
He’s not really up to the job.
up to doing something: I don’t think I’m up to doing a ten-mile walk.
Synonyms and related words
Skilful and able:able, capable, professional...

RW I would have quoted u'r post but it wouldn't let me quote it for some reason. Also it's not my intention to single u out, just something that caught my eye.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Agreed.

In RW response he changed the wording from "up to it" to "up for it", and the definition he posted followed suit.

Here's the definitions for "up to it" from the same site.

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/up-to-something

The 4th definition matches best with the text and u'r interpretation IMHO.

4 well enough, strong enough, or good enough to do something
She’s supposed to leave the hospital tomorrow, but I don’t think she’s up to it.
He’s not really up to the job.
up to doing something: I don’t think I’m up to doing a ten-mile walk.
Synonyms and related words
Skilful and able:able, capable, professional...

RW I would have quoted u'r post but it wouldn't let me quote it for some reason. Also it's not my intention to single u out, just something that caught my eye.

Except that the complete sentence is:

"If I was up to it, I would come back."

So Mr Mxy is only talking about coming back into the scene but he didn't come back because:

- He didn't feel right to help this alternate version of Zatana.

- He didn't want to kill Superemoboy Prime because he isn't a killer.

On the topic:

Did you know there was a story where an Earth Prime writer from the real world defeated the JSA? It established Earth Prime has powers over "fictional" characters.

I don't know if the current crop of writers remember that story, but it would explain a lot of Superboy Prime's "hax".

Originally posted by cdtm
On the topic:

Did you know there was a story where an Earth Prime writer from the real world defeated the JSA? It established Earth Prime has powers over "fictional" characters.

I don't know if the current crop of writers remember that story, but it would explain a lot of Superboy Prime's "hax".

Do you know the name of that issue ?

I would look at my hypothesis twice about what Raptor22 said.

I really don't like to make mistakes. ^^'

Originally posted by Raptor22
Agreed.

In RW response he changed the wording from "up to it" to "up for it", and the definition he posted followed suit.

Here's the definitions for "up to it" from the same site.

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/up-to-something

The 4th definition matches best with the text and u'r interpretation IMHO.

4 well enough, strong enough, or good enough to do something
She’s supposed to leave the hospital tomorrow, but I don’t think she’s up to it.
He’s not really up to the job.
up to doing something: I don’t think I’m up to doing a ten-mile walk.
Synonyms and related words
Skilful and able:able, capable, professional...

RW I would have quoted u'r post but it wouldn't let me quote it for some reason. Also it's not my intention to single u out, just something that caught my eye.

I replied a bit fast.

I will think about it.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
I have a question.

What about high showings that involves not much effort from the characters using their abilities ?

Molecule Manipulation/Reality Warping comes into my mind because the only effort required to use it is a simple thought, except in the case the character is facing a character with a similar ability and power-level.

Shall we count that as a base showing in the case the character is facing another character, or more, without this ability ?

It depends. Is the power definitely a part of their powerset? Or is it a once-ff, "this writer hasn't got a clue" kind of thing? Is it, much like going WBH or sundipping, an unfair advantage that would end the fight once it occurs? How likely is the character to use said power?

If a character exists in a tier and also has an ability that would make any fights between them and other people in their tier last all of five seconds, that's when we bring in other versions. It keeps things more fair.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Fair enough.

What I'm getting from that is, we start averages as the lowest possible showing, but feats that are performed, say,3 times in the last 75 years,are also valid as feats in threads.

Except for Sentry. As we have different versions.

As long as there's no real reason why the feat isn't valid, sure.

Cyclops's beams having heat, for example, isn't a part of his powerset, but dumbass writers have alluded to it at least once or twice. We have to account for that shit too.

😂

Lego Marvel was the only one I forgave because it was such a good game.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
I don't need to, I was actually just warming up DS so I get his full attention.

AVERAGE RULE

1)

2)

3)

APPLICATION

Let's make an estimation about the number of appearances for each characters and the percent of time each of them used their abilities.

SENTRY

Let's say Direct Molecule Manipulation to Erase Something for Sentry/Void and Flurry of Punches at Super-Speed for Superman.

According to the Marvel Database, Sentry/Void has:

47 + 253 + 9 = 309

Sentry/Void has 309 appearances.

Let's say that he used Direct Molecule Manipulation to Erase Something 3 times (Kree Gun + Molecule Man + Loki).

Let's calculate the percent of times this ability was used according to his number of appearances:

3/309 * 100 = 0.97 % which is roughly 1 % of his appearances.

SENTRY USED ROUGHLY DIRECT MOLECULE MANIPULATION TO ERASE SOMETHING 1% OF HIS APPEARANCES.

SUPERMAN:

According to the DC Database, Superman (NEW AND PRIME EARTHS) has:

2778 + 610 = 3388

Superman has 3388 appearances.

Let's say that he used his Flurry of Punches at Super-Speed 5 times (Sakki, Equus, Doomsday, Parasite, Ultraman).

Let's calculate the percent of times this ability was used according to his number of appearances:

5/3388 * 100 = 0.14 % which is roughly 0.1 % of his appearances.

SUPERMAN USED HIS FLURRY OF PUNCHES AT SUPER-SPEED ROUGHLY 0.1 % OF HIS APPEARANCES.

Let's compare the numbers now:

SENTRY (DMMES) = 1%

SUPERMAN (FPSS) = 0.1 %

A QUICK OBSERVATION SHOWS THAT SENTRY MAKE USE OF HIS DIRECT MOLECULE MANIPULATION 10 TIMES MORE OFTEN THAN SUPERMAN USES HIS FLURRY OF PUNCHES AT SUPER-SPEED.

YET, SUPERMAN'S FPSS IS ACCEPTED TO BE USED IN THE BATTLE FORUM WHEREAS HE MAKE USE OF THAT ABILITY 10 TIMES LESS THAN SENTRY ON AN AVERAGE.

HEY DARKSAINT, DOUBLE STANDARDS, YOU SAID ? 😂

HILARIOUS...

1. You must use appearances that show a choice. For example, Superman hasn’t fought in all his appearances. 2nd, Superman has used super fast perceptions many times.

2. Averages is not based off number of appearances and times they used a power. We must throw out PIS showings and showings that are not relevant to choice. “In character” is based off intelligence, willingness, and creativity. Superman is more than smart enough to use speed, he is also more than willing to use it in a battle, and it doesn’t take any creativity to think of using speed.

Circumstances can prove PIS. For example, if a gunman next to Superman shot at someone then we know that Superman, 100% of the time, would perceive the bullet in slow motion and travel with speed to intercept the bullets to protect the person. WW would block lasers and bullets 99.9% of the time. These circumstances are the NORM and therefore any showings that contradict them is considered PIS.

Finally, PR was referring to the average person’s knowledge.

Hi Pr-,

Thanks for your answer.

I will focus on Sentry in my response:

Originally posted by -Pr-
It depends. Is the power definitely a part of their powerset?

Yes, indeed. Sentry's ability to do everything was explained this way.

Or is it a once-ff, "this writer hasn't got a clue" kind of thing?

Nope.

Whatever ill-informed people said about Bendis, he was aware about the abilities of the Sentry and defined them more.

Jenkin's said that Sentry was meant to be a God and Bendis chosen to define his power-set as being similar to other gods in the Marvel Universe like the Molecule Man and the Beyonder.

Is it, much like going WBH or sundipping, an unfair advantage that would end the fight once it occurs?

Nope.

It isn't a special mode, even Sentry and Void are just the way Bob chose to shape-shift in. When he is the Void, Bob actually believes he is the Void and change his shape to fit the way he perceives himself.

How likely is the character to use said power?

The forum rules consider that the characters are fighting to the best of their abilities and Sentry only needs a thought to use it and it's effortless so this should be taken in account in every fight.

If a character exists in a tier and also has an ability that would make any fights between them and other people in their tier last all of five seconds, that's when we bring in other versions. It keeps things more fair.

I think, personally, that the only way to manage Sentry in a battle forum is to consider that he could be stable or unstable, like weakened by his agoraphobia and GAD, but being unstable is like accepting that we are using a Superman poisoned by Kryptonite.

In terms of power-level, Sentry doesn't really vary otherwise. He simply holds back all the time and refrain to use his powers because story-wise, he is afraid that the Void come back and do terrible things. In a BF setting this shouldn't be taken in account in my opinion.

Bob doesn't have multiple versions, he is simply one guy with different mindsets.

He doesn't have multiple personality. The Void is simply a delusion of Robert believing himself as a malevolent entity or an hallucination of Robert when he is a separate entity. Voila. 🙂

Prime a$$ rape Sentry

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Hi Pr-,

Thanks for your answer.

I will focus on Sentry in my response:

Yes, indeed. Sentry's ability to do everything was explained this way.

Nope.

Whatever ill-informed people said about Bendis, he was aware about the abilities of the Sentry and defined them more.

Jenkin's said that Sentry was meant to be a God and Bendis chosen to define his power-set as being similar to other gods in the Marvel Universe like the Molecule Man and the Beyonder.

Nope.

It isn't a special mode, even Sentry and Void are just the way Bob chose to shape-shift in. When he is the Void, Bob actually believes he is the Void and change his shape to fit the way he perceives himself.

The forum rules consider that the characters are fighting to the best of their abilities and Sentry only needs a thought to use it and it's effortless so this should be taken in account in every fight.

I think, personally, that the only way to manage Sentry in a battle forum is to consider that he could be stable or unstable, like weakened by his agoraphobia and GAD, but being unstable is like accepting that we are using a Superman poisoned by Kryptonite.

In terms of power-level, Sentry doesn't really vary otherwise. He simply holds back all the time and refrain to use his powers because story-wise, he is afraid that the Void come back and do terrible things. In a BF setting this shouldn't be taken in account in my opinion.

Bob doesn't have multiple versions, he is simply one guy with different mindsets.

He doesn't have multiple personality. The Void is simply a delusion of Robert believing himself as a malevolent entity or an hallucination of Robert when he is a separate entity. Voila. 🙂

So... What conclusion does that lead to, then?

Originally posted by -Pr-
So... What conclusion does that lead to, then?

That Sentry can use his Molecule Manipulation in every fight without trouble.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
That Sentry can use his Molecule Manipulation in every fight without trouble.

Okay, and how effective is it? And to anyone else here, what reason is there not to have it be valid?

Well he said in character Sentry holds back his powers.

So why shouldn't we take it into account for battles?

Assuming we allow all showings.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Okay, and how effective is it?

That's effective to the point he can beat a Molecule Man at full power without training.

And to anyone else here, what reason is there not to have it be valid?

If we allow Flash using his IMP in every fight or Superman using his flurry of punches in every fight, Sentry using his Molecule Manipulation is way more legit considering it is the basis of his powers and that he did it a lot more than the others statistically.

Flash is able to run every possible strategy simultaneously.

He's smart.

He has general knowledge of his opponent.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's effective to the point he can beat a Molecule Man at full power without training.

If we allow Flash using his IMP in every fight or Superman using his flurry of punches in every fight, Sentry using his Molecule Manipulation is way more legit considering it is the basis of his powers and that he did it a lot more than the others statistically.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's effective to the point he can beat a Molecule Man at full power without training.

If we allow Flash using his IMP in every fight or Superman using his flurry of punches in every fight, Sentry using his Molecule Manipulation is way more legit considering it is the basis of his powers and that he did it a lot more than the others statistically.

What tier do you envision Sentry being in, then?

Originally posted by -Pr-
What tier do you envision Sentry being in, then?

In the same tier as Molecule Man or above.

He is clearly in the Cosmic-tier.