Angel and Buffy vs Captain America

Originally posted by SquallX
Angel’s a love sick puppy that has died and give up everything for her to be happy. He’ll admit Buffy is stronger because Angel doesn’t really care about boasting himself.

Angelus never took Faith seriously. Watch the fight again. He was killing Faith, to him Faith was just a second hand slayer since he could have the one he really wanted.

Angel wasn’t sacred for himself regarding the Slayer. He was scared of the Slayer hurting others because she was a phycho.

When Angel fought Spike, he even admitted his heart wasn’t in the fight. And in the series finale he proved it when his team jump him, including spike, and beat the crap out of all of them.

Angelus was trying to kill her. He even brought a gun to kill her. Angelus was killing her fists with his face? Because she flat out overpowered him when enraged.

That's why he brought Wolfram and Hart tactical squad with him after denying it before learning she was a Slayer, huh?

He didn't beat the crap out of anyone. He surprised them and told them his plan after pulling out a glamour.

Buffy was so much stronger than Spike that she lifted Olaf hammer with one hand when Spike couldn't do it with both hands.

Your excuses for Angel are hilarious as it is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was being a petulant child and punching Buffy after asking her to get out of LA. Doesn't counts much on love scale. But let me get this correct, Angel is stronger than Buffy even after she thrashed him multiple times and he admitted quite a few times that she is stronger than him?

Angelus was trying to kill her. He even brought a gun to kill her. Angelus was killing her fists with his face? Because she flat out overpowered him when enraged.

That's why he brought Wolfram and Hart tactical squad with him after denying it before learning she was a Slayer, huh?

He didn't beat the crap out of anyone. He surprised them and told them his plan after pulling out a glamour.

Buffy was so much stronger than Spike that she lifted Olaf hammer with one hand when Spike couldn't do it with both hands.

Your excuses for Angel are hilarious as it is.

Because Buffy punches him first. And Buffy was being childish because Angel wasn’t backing her play when it came to Faith. Remember that Faith stole her body and ****ed Riley. Never claimed Buffy wasn’t stronger, but she was only stronger in her show. Angel and Buffy never had a real fight until season 2 when Angelus showed up.

Pretty sure the shot gun belonged to Wesley. Faith never overpowered Angelus. The fight was even, with Faith having some upper hand here and there.

Angel brought the squad because that particular Slayer was deranged. She spent her whole life and a psychiatric word, only to suddenly become this powerful being, with the nightmares to go with them. She had no idea of right and wrong.

Wrong it was his squad that jumped him in his office because they thought he turned evil after jointing the Black Thorn circle, and killing the guardian of the deeper well.

What excuses genius?

Originally posted by SquallX
Because Buffy punches him first. And Buffy was being childish because Angel wasn’t backing her play when it came to Faith. Remember that Faith stole her body and ****ed Riley. Never claimed Buffy wasn’t stronger, but she was only stronger in her show. Angel and Buffy never had a real fight until season 2 when Angelus showed up.

Pretty sure the shot gun belonged to Wesley. Faith never overpowered Angelus. The fight was even, with Faith having some upper hand here and there.

Angel brought the squad because that particular Slayer was deranged. She spent her whole life and a psychiatric word, only to suddenly become this powerful being, with the nightmares to go with them. She had no idea of right and wrong.

Wrong it was his squad that jumped him in his office because they thought he turned evil after jointing the Black Thorn circle, and killing the guardian of the deeper well.

What excuses genius?

Buffy was stronger than Angel anywhere. It was stated multiple times.

Faith overpowered Angel at the end and had him at her mercy but stopped before killing him.

They confronted him and he started throwing punches.

That losing to Spike doesn't means anything and Buffy was not stronger than Angel when he pretty much admitted it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And he is so much in love with her that he punches her back.

Buffy was stronger than Angel anywhere. It was stated multiple times.

Faith overpowered Angel at the end and had him at her mercy but stopped before killing him.

They confronted him and he started throwing punches.

That losing to Spike doesn't means anything and Buffy was not stronger than Angel when he pretty much admitted it.

Just because you love someone, doesn’t mean you always have to put up with their shits. Buffy was been a brat, and Angel rightly told her so.

Hell, Angel loves her so much that he literally gave up being human to protect her.

Are you taking about season 1 back alley fight, or season 4 Angelus fight?

They actually attacked Angel first, and he put them all down casually. Go back and watch the Angel, Spike fight. Angel even admitted he’s heart wasn’t in that fight. True he lost, but Angel’s mindset was torn.

Buffy was only ever stronger in her own series. Any time she and Angel met after that, they’ve always been equals.

Abhi is right here.

Angellous did try to kill Faith, but lost fair and square.

And not only did he repeatedly lose to Buffy on her show, but he was heavily implied to be her inferior on his own show too.

Now if things changed in the comics, then you are welcome to point them out.

As of the Tv shows though, Cap vs this duo will be a pretty even fight, unless Angel manages to suck his blood, which will make it a stomp for the duo.

Edit- dont know if Comic Angel kept his amp from the finale.

The ONLY time Buffy and Angel/Angelus had a serious fight without love getting in the way, with both going for the kill, was at the end of Buffy season 2 and Buffy beat the everloving crap out of him.

Every other dust-up between the two had emotional baggage all over the place and/or they never really wanted to hurt each other.

Buffy's stats should be above Cap across the board, but TV FX sadly don't have the budget of movie FX, so feats are few and far between. but here's a couple:
[list=1][*]She kicked Reilly clear across the room during sparring while still holding back
[*]The troll hammer incident that was already mentioned
[*]Effortlessly bending a shotgun barrel belonging to a werewolf hunter
[*]Effortlessly (again) picks up a steal I-Beam at her construction job after the guy warns her they weigh hundreds of pounds
[/list]

Originally posted by Scoobless
The ONLY time Buffy and Angel/Angelus had a serious fight without love getting in the way, with both going for the kill, was at the end of Buffy season 2 and Buffy beat the everloving crap out of him.

Every other dust-up between the two had emotional baggage all over the place and/or they never really wanted to hurt each other.

Buffy's stats should be above Cap across the board, but TV FX sadly don't have the budget of movie FX, so feats are few and far between. but here's a couple:
[list=1][*]She kicked Reilly clear across the room during sparring while still holding back
[*]The troll hammer incident that was already mentioned
[*]Effortlessly bending a shotgun barrel belonging to a werewolf hunter
[*]Effortlessly (again) picks up a steal I-Beam at her construction job after the guy warns her they weigh hundreds of pounds
[/list]

Except maybe the troll hammer one because I don't remember that well.

Originally posted by SquallX
Just because you love someone, doesn’t mean you always have to put up with their shits. Buffy was been a brat, and Angel rightly told her so.

Hell, Angel loves her so much that he literally gave up being human to protect her.

Are you taking about season 1 back alley fight, or season 4 Angelus fight?

They actually attacked Angel first, and he put them all down casually. Go back and watch the Angel, Spike fight. Angel even admitted he’s heart wasn’t in that fight. True he lost, but Angel’s mindset was torn.

Buffy was only ever stronger in her own series. Any time she and Angel met after that, they’ve always been equals.

I've already addressed this before.

Denial is such a great thing, eh?

To recap on the Buffyverse facts here:

1. Buffy is stronger than Angel, he flat out says it and has no reason to lie, and she's beaten him more times than the reverse.

2. Buffy is not significantly stronger than Angel. We've seen them fight plenty of times and Angel fares pretty well and he has the feats on his own show to compete.

3. Angel is faster and more durable than she is, though, by virtue of being a vampire.

4. Angel vs. Faith in season 1 of Angel was a fairly contentious battle. He restrained himself, she went all out to try to goad and piss him off enough to kill her.

5. Angelus vs. Faith in season 4 of Angel was also fairly contentious. Neither of them were, for the most part, trying to kill each other. She wanted to bring him in alive to restore his soul and was drugged, he was largely toying with her in typical Angelus style.

6. Angel vs. Spike in season 5 was fairly close, but Spike did decisively win the fight. However, that was directly attributable to motivation: Spike wanted the cup more and fought harder for it. The same script also says that was the first and only time Spike ever defeated Angel in their fights. Which is why, at the end of season 5, when Spike, Gunn, Wesley, and Lorne all confront Angel in his office, he beats the hell out of all of them and disarms them.

As someone who's thoroughly acquainted with both shows, the general hierarchy is Buffy > Faith > Angel > Spike and they're all close enough to pose a challenge.

Originally posted by Scoobless

Buffy's stats should be above Cap across the board, but TV FX sadly don't have the budget of movie FX, so feats are few and far between. but here's a couple:
[list=1][*]She kicked Reilly clear across the room during sparring while still holding back
[*]The troll hammer incident that was already mentioned
[*]Effortlessly bending a shotgun barrel belonging to a werewolf hunter
[*]Effortlessly (again) picks up a steal I-Beam at her construction job after the guy warns her they weigh hundreds of pounds
[/list]

Thats a BS excuse about the FX budget.

Hercules and Xena easily displayed physical stats equivalent to Cap years earlier.

Nothing you have listed surpasses Caps best strength feats. But his speed, durability and agility is Massively above hers. Massively. Not even comparable.

Originally posted by SquallX
Angel never fought Faith, you’re getting the characters mixed up.

Angel and Faith first encounter was season 1 when Wolf Ram and Heart hired her to kill Angel. They fought, but Angel never went to the fight with the mindset of ever killing her. Angel wanted to save Faith above all else. Faith even kidnapped and torture Wesley just so Angel could fight her, and Angel still didn’t gave in. In the end he saved Faith.

Now in early season 4, Angel lost his soul and turned to Angelus. Angelus never fought Faith directly because he was being use by the Beast and his Master. Who we later found out was Cordelia being posses by a higher being called Jasmine.

Angelus didn’t like being used, and he knew he couldnt beat the Beast thanks to their prior meeting at least a 200 years ago. So he pitied them against each other. That’s why Angelus was sheering both side. He didnt care who won.

When Faith came out on top, Angelus was beating her, until Faith took those drugs. And when Angelus went to bite her, he got drugged himself.

Angelus is Angel. They have the same power levels lol. I know he was Angelus, I know everything you said, I just didn't want to have to get into the whole soul stuff, etc.

But the point is Angel needed The Beast to weaken her before fighting her. He knew he couldn't beat her. If he could have killed her himself he would have.

He's not above Buffy, but he does have advantages she doesn't. A huge damage soak.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why do you know all of this?

I have to admit, I have watched a ton of Buffy and Angel too lol. I love the shows.

Originally posted by Surtur
I have to admit, I have watched a ton of Buffy and Angel too lol. I love the shows.

Even with all the misandry?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Even with all the misandry?

Lol well..Joss Whedon can still write some interesting characters and create interesting universes.

Plus I like Giles. And Angel wasn't as bad with that.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol well..Joss Whedon can still write some interesting characters and create interesting universes.

Plus I like Giles.

At least you didn't say that you liked Spike.

Spike was cool at first. Then he became...I guess what we would now call a cuck.

Originally posted by Surtur
Spike was cool at first. Then he became...I guess what we would now call a cuck.

He might have been a good evil villain, but since he was popular with the female fans, they turned him into a love interest and just basically ignored or made excuses for all the evil things he did. both before and after he started helping.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He might have been a good evil villain, but since he was popular with the female fans, they turned him into a love interest and just basically ignored or made excuses for all the evil things he did. both before and after he started helping.

Yeah...he got better on Angel lol. Less p*ssy whipped. Though I guess if there was a p*ssy to be whipped to..

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah...he got better on Angel lol. Less p*ssy whipped. Though I guess if there was a p*ssy to be whipped to..

The guy is a rapist, they never should have made him a good guy, hell. I've been told he and Buffy are currently together in the comics.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The guy is a rapist, they never should have made him a good guy, hell. I've been told he and Buffy are currently together in the comics.

He's not a rapist. It's complicated lol. He did all that when he was a soul less demon. When he got his soul he wasn't evil anymore.

I will also admit I have read the comics, but only like season 8 and 9. I did enjoy it, I just haven't kept up with it, this conversation is making me want to. There is one point where Buffy becomes Superman-like in terms of power levels, so does Angel(calling himself Twilight), I think they then have sex and it creates monsters from a universe? It was weird. Then suddenly Buffy was bisexual. Then she was saying that deep down she always felt she'd be with Xander, but he wants Dawn. It's weird, but I liked it.