Angel and Buffy vs Captain America

Anyways as to the fight, one problem is speed. Angel, at times, has shown insane speed, but he never uses it in combat. But somehow he can exit a vehicle in the blink of an eye without you even hearing the door close.

And he can do that whole "be in one place and suddenly he is in another" type stuff. But only one vampire I recall ever used speed in combat, it was Penn, the only vampire Angelus created. Yes, I remember all this lol.

So he technically has the capability to attack Cap before he can react. And he has enough damage soak to get tossed off buildings and get up pretty quickly.

Originally posted by Surtur
He's not a rapist. It's complicated lol. He did all that when he was a soul less demon. When he got his soul he wasn't evil anymore.

I will also admit I have read the comics, but only like season 8 and 9. I did enjoy it, I just haven't kept up with it, this conversation is making me want to. There is one point where Buffy becomes Superman-like in terms of power levels, so does Angel(calling himself Twilight), I think they then have sex and it creates monsters from a universe? It was weird. Then suddenly Buffy was bisexual. Then she was saying that deep down she always felt she'd be with Xander, but he wants Dawn. It's weird, but I liked it.

He never showed remorse even after getting his soul back.

But like you said, back to the topic.

Angel was the original Ed Cullen. Centuries-old creeper, going after teenage girls.

Buffy did love her some necrophilia.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, Angel was only protecting someone who stole her body, tried to kill her and raped her boyfriend after stealing her body. Trying to hold Faith accountable is such a bratty thing, eh?

I've already addressed this before.

Denial is such a great thing, eh?

You do know Angel’s whole schitk was forgiveness right?

Angelus committed a lot of evil, yet Angel rose everyday and fight for his forgiveness. Why shouldn’t be help Faith? Remember what he told Faith in season 3 when she started becoming dark?

Didn’t Buffy also sleep with Spike. A soulless rapist vampire? The same soulless demon that created a bot and sex with? Then her hypocrit family did nothing about.

At least Angel had a soul, and was actually trying to do good.

Buffy was suffering from massive mental trauma at the time and there was no way she could be considered able to legally consent. Just more proof that Spike was a rapist.

Originally posted by SquallX
You do know Angel’s whole schitk was forgiveness right?

Angelus committed a lot of evil, yet Angel rose everyday and fight for his forgiveness. Why shouldn’t be help Faith? Remember what he told Faith in season 3 when she started becoming dark?

Didn’t Buffy also sleep with Spike. A soulless rapist vampire? The same soulless demon that created a bot and sex with? Then her hypocrit family did nothing about.

At least Angel had a soul, and was actually trying to do good.

Buffy was in a deep depression when she was ripped out of heaven and took it out on Spike. At least she didn't try to lose her soul by sleeping with a far worse monster like Darla and tried to kill Wesley.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Buffy was suffering from massive mental trauma at the time and there was no way she could be considered able to legally consent. Just more proof that Spike was a rapist.

I never liked either Spike or Angel on Buffy. On Angel both became far better characters.

My favorite were always Buffy and Wesley on respective shows.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And Buffy was a Slayer who gave Faith every chance to redeem but Faith always spit on her face. Angel was always a hypocrite, trying to kill Wesley when it came to his family and letting Darla become a vampire again and asking her to get out or he will kill her.

Buffy was in a deep depression when she was ripped out of heaven and took it out on Spike. At least she didn't try to lose her soul by sleeping with a far worse monster like Darla and tried to kill Wesley.

Again that was Angel’s thing, to help the helpless. Faith became the helpless. Angel trying to kill Wesley wasn’t a hypocrite. He was a grieving father. Wesley put so much faith in a prophecy that he was willing to turn Angel’s son over into one of his worst enemies. He deserved Angel trying to kill him.

Both Angel and Buffy were wrong. Don’t forget that Angel lost all hope in humanity when Holland took him in the elevator. He thought he was going to fight all type of evils, only to be sent back to Earth. That. Role Angel.

The difference between Buffy and Angel. Was that Angel didn’t wallow too much in his misery. He picked himself up. Where as Buffy did nothing but screw soulless demon every chance she got. And her hypocrit of a family did nothing about it.

Angel spent around a century wallowing in his misery, until he fell lust with jailbait.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Angel was the original Ed Cullen. Centuries-old creeper, going after teenage girls.

It's even creepier when you find out Angel was spying on her even before she came to Sunnydale. First saw her when she was like 15 and it is implied he fell in love with her at that moment, lol.

Yep, he's a borderline hebephile.

Originally posted by SquallX
Again that was Angel’s thing, to help the helpless. Faith became the helpless. Angel trying to kill Wesley wasn’t a hypocrite. He was a grieving father. Wesley put so much faith in a prophecy that he was willing to turn Angel’s son over into one of his worst enemies. He deserved Angel trying to kill him.

Both Angel and Buffy were wrong. Don’t forget that Angel lost all hope in humanity when Holland took him in the elevator. He thought he was going to fight all type of evils, only to be sent back to Earth. That. Role Angel.

The difference between Buffy and Angel. Was that Angel didn’t wallow too much in his misery. He picked himself up. Where as Buffy did nothing but screw soulless demon every chance she got. And her hypocrit of a family did nothing about it.

So it's only forgiveness when it suits Angel, huh?

Angel didn't wallow in misery for a hundred years until Whistler had to literally drag him to Sunnydale?

Buffy had literally been ripped out of heaven. What excuse did Angel have?

Obviously it goes without saying that Angel is deeply, deeply flawed...

But he tried to kill Wesley because he was (a) super pissed because (b) Wesley acted treacherously and dishonestly (for good reasons, no doubt) and his actions led to Connor being trapped in Qor'toth.

And he later did forgive him.

This thread went into an entertaining tangent. And I am being serious. Haven't seen an in-depth Buffy/Angel discussion in ages.

Originally posted by Surtur
Spike was cool at first. Then he became...I guess what we would now call a cuck.

The dude was about to rape Buffy. He felt guilty about it and got re-souled. That's not being a cuck. That's being a decent human be...err, vampire.

He didn't really feel all that guilty. He was just obsessed with Buffy and knew that getting a soul was his best chance of renewing a relationship that only existed because he manipulated someone suffering from a massive case of PTSD.

Spike was a rapist long before that failed rape episode.

I haven't seen the episode in a while, but when he went into that cave in the last episode of S6 to get his soul back, I remember him looking all broken up. Maybe with guilt, maybe not, but he was definitely after some kind of redemption.

He was broken up because he couldn't have Buffy, the woman he was obsessed with. He has never been about Redemption for redemptions sake, it was always so he can get what he wanted.

Maybe it was a mixture of both selfishness and remorse? I thought the entire point of the later seasons was that Spike still had good in him. He's still a monster, but the fact that he got tortured by Glorificus and didn't tell her that Dawn was The Key showed that he had SOME level of integrity.