Thread starter said the battle starts from what is shown in the scan. This version of Superman would have a hard time with Spidey. Yes, you could probably bring up his fight against Hulk but that fight was fan voted whereas his other showings were primarily written by someone who looked past votes. Juggernaut stomps and Superman isn't untouchable.
Originally posted by carver9
Thread starter said the battle starts from what is shown in the scan. This version of Superman would have a hard time with Spidey. Yes, you could probably bring up his fight against Hulk but that fight was fan voted whereas his other showings were primarily written by someone who looked past votes. Juggernaut stomps and Superman isn't untouchable.
Well he dropped Juggernaut and made him yell in pain in the very scan shown, so I think that's proof enough that Superman can hurt Juggernaut.
Originally posted by carver9
@Delta...With a sneak attack tbh and he probably could hurt him but that doesn't translate to besting imo. Just went back and read access #1 and Juggernaut did lose to Wonder Woman even though plot was involved (Jugs also blitzed her), so Superman does stand a chance. Wonder Woman>>>Venom.
So you're trying to argue seeing it coming means it wouldn't hurt him and Superman can only pull off one punch? But I like how you put more importance on what happened in the other series and justifying ignoring what else happened in the same series.
Originally posted by carver9
Thread starter said the battle starts from what is shown in the scan. This version of Superman would have a hard time with Spidey. Yes, you could probably bring up his fight against Hulk but that fight was fan voted whereas his other showings were primarily written by someone who looked past votes. Juggernaut stomps and Superman isn't untouchable.
Carv, stop being a fangirl.
Fan votes be dammed, Juggernaut couldn't tank the Hulk's blows until he passed out from exhaustion, and Superman did.
Jugg's also couldn't catch Mjolnir with one hand as Thor was swinging it at full power, yet Superman did.
Superman has always been above the scrubs in Marvel, it's just part of his character.
The writers of both series even stated something like, "Marvel comics is about man trying to become God's, where DC comics is about God's trying to become men."
Even going just by feats, Superman >>> Everyone in Marvel, barring abstract beings and a few Omega + level mutants.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Superman destroys Juggernaut. He had one good showing with the force field against Thor but he has worse showings as well. He was stunned by a giant fan throwing him while he had his force field and could be hurt by Black Tom at half juggernaut power while having his force field.Juggernaut gets trashed like always.
He was at half-power.
Why the f*ck are you using a showing of him getting hit at half-power by a being who has half the other power as evidence of anything? He even specifically mentions how before the sharing, nothing could hurt him.
Not only is power-halving inconsistent AF at comics, we have no idea how it was cut across the board.
You are a mentally stunted baboon.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He was at half-power.Why the f*ck are you using a showing of him getting hit at half-power by a being who has half the other power as evidence of anything? He even specifically mentions how before the sharing, nothing could hurt him.
Not only is power-halving inconsistent AF at comics, we have no idea how it was cut across the board.
You are a mentally stunted baboon.
Regardless, Jugg's is nowhere near the level of Superman, plain and simple.
I agree that said showing with him at half-power was inconsistent, but he's not doing half the stuff that Superman has done casually, even at full power.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThat's the thing though, where does his durability start and end? Is he totally invulnerable at 100 percent power and then is completely vulnerable to attacks at 99 percent? Is his power being split in half equal to half his durability or is it an indication that his durability isn't absolute at its peak? Maybe it's 4 times as durable, that would still eventually allow people like Superguy to carver him up.
He was at half-power.Why the f*ck are you using a showing of him getting hit at half-power by a being who has half the other power as evidence of anything? He even specifically mentions how before the sharing, nothing could hurt him.
Not only is power-halving inconsistent AF at comics, we have no idea how it was cut across the board.
You are a mentally stunted baboon.
Even Juggernaut's far away best durability feat could be argued that the Godblast was fighting three enchantments. His invulnerability, his field, and his unstoppable movement. An example of how momentum and a field upping the ante is Cannonball's whole career. And the Godblast still managed to stop him and iirc hurt him as well. In that arc a hammer throw managed to "push" his field back and warp in on itself though still sapping momentum. Sure it hit like a child, but it still went in.
His shield has been overloaded by a fan on another of the few times that it's been used, and left him stunned. Naturally we use his best feat as the average there. I'm sure Superman fans would hate to contrast the highs of Superman and Juggernaut...
That being said, I don't think Superman one shots him, nor do I think quite a few people should. But I do think it is entirely in the realm of Superman's power to hurt him with a shot. One leads to another and another and I believe Superman can and should be able to knock him out. Might take a while, but that's irrelevant. And I don't think Superman needs to turn Juggernaut into a statue to do it, mind you we could use a high feat of his in his last fight against Doomsday to show you just how bad he could run circles around him and lay into his shitbox.
I think if they brawl heads up, either can eventually knock the other out. I don't care who it shifts towards in that instance. Once Superman starts doing anything else at all it shifts heavily in his favor. If he fights like against Doomsday (who was like ****ing Mangog level), Juggernaut just turns into a limp dick trying to flop his way into an unsatisfied anus.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaWhen the hell did superman catch a FULL POWER hammer swing from Thor??? Hulk was getting ready to overpower superman very quickly. Hulk has KOED a far more powerful superman with one shot. Superman is above most all heavy hitters in Marvel?? BS. Ask Venom that question. Marvel has plenty supermen and many of them would stomp superman.
Carv, stop being a fangirl.Fan votes be dammed, Juggernaut couldn't tank the Hulk's blows until he passed out from exhaustion, and Superman did.
Jugg's also couldn't catch Mjolnir with one hand as Thor was swinging it at full power, yet Superman did.
Superman has always been above the scrubs in Marvel, it's just part of his character.
The writers of both series even stated something like, "Marvel comics is about man trying to become God's, where DC comics is about God's trying to become men."
Even going just by feats, Superman >>> Everyone in Marvel, barring abstract beings and a few Omega + level mutants.
Originally posted by JBLHow in the **** does everything you say have to do with crossovers? It's basically fan canon at that point. The only thing semi close to canon had Superman winning. Firestorm also beat Molecule Man in that crossover. I'm sure crossovers are a great source of information.
When the hell did superman catch a FULL POWER hammer swing from Thor??? Hulk was getting ready to overpower superman very quickly. Hulk has KOED a far more powerful superman with one shot. Superman is above most all heavy hitters in Marvel?? BS. Ask Venom that question. Marvel has plenty supermen and many of them would stomp superman.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He was at half-power.
And?
Why the f*ck are you using a showing of him getting hit at half-power by a being who has half the other power as evidence of anything? He even specifically mentions how before the sharing, nothing could hurt him.
Yes, because Juggernaut has never said such a thing and later be hurt.
Not only is power-halving inconsistent AF at comics, we have no idea how it was cut across the board.
He had half the power. How is it inconsistent retard? Just because Thor couldn't lift a tractor at half strength because he is a sissy doesn't rules everything as inconsistent.
You are a mentally stunted baboon.
Go home diet carver.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
That's the thing though, where does his durability start and end? Is he totally invulnerable at 100 percent power and then is completely vulnerable to attacks at 99 percent? Is his power being split in half equal to half his durability or is it an indication that his durability isn't absolute at its peak? Maybe it's 4 times as durable, that would still eventually allow people like Superguy to [b]carver him up.
And we have many examples of him getting stomped out while weakened. We have examples of him getting hurt twice by Onslaught, and by hurt I mean he sucks completely against Onslaught. Even 8th Day was "hurt" by Thor and hurt by the Exemplars. Normal Classic Juggernaut has been hurt by quite a few things, including himself. WWH hurt him as well. Even Kuurth was getting hurt, and Colossus was all sorts of stuff.
You yourself I believe have argued that Thor only took away his shield, which means Thor can hurt him, and put him to sleep.Even Juggernaut's far away best durability feat could be argued that the Godblast was fighting three enchantments. His invulnerability, his field, and his unstoppable movement. An example of how momentum and a field upping the ante is Cannonball's whole career. And the Godblast still managed to stop him and iirc hurt him as well. In that arc a hammer throw managed to "push" his field back and warp in on itself though still sapping momentum. Sure it hit like a child, but it still went in.
His shield has been overloaded by a fan on another of the few times that it's been used, and left him stunned. Naturally we use his best feat as the average there. I'm sure Superman fans would hate to contrast the highs of Superman and Juggernaut...That being said, I don't think Superman one shots him, nor do I think quite a few people should. But I do think it is entirely in the realm of Superman's power to hurt him with a shot. One leads to another and another and I believe Superman can and should be able to knock him out. Might take a while, but that's irrelevant. And I don't think Superman needs to turn Juggernaut into a statue to do it, mind you we could use a high feat of his in his last fight against Doomsday to show you just how bad he could run circles around him and lay into his shitbox.
I think if they brawl heads up, either can eventually knock the other out. I don't care who it shifts towards in that instance. Once Superman starts doing anything else at all it shifts heavily in his favor. If he fights like against Doomsday (who was like ****ing Mangog level), Juggernaut just turns into a limp dick trying to flop his way into an unsatisfied anus. [/B]
Originally posted by One Big Mob
How in the **** does everything you say have to do with crossovers? It's basically fan canon at that point. The only thing semi close to canon had Superman winning. Firestorm also beat Molecule Man in that crossover. I'm sure crossovers are a great source of information.
Not to mention it being against the rules.
==
That rule about bashing? It's not a suggestion. Don't do it.
Originally posted by One Big MobI didn't bring up superman tanking hulks blows or superman catching thors hammer did I??? Guess it's ok to use crossovers when it's used to say superman wins. So-calledTanking hulks blows and catching that hammer happened in a crossover.
How in the **** does everything you say have to do with crossovers? It's basically fan canon at that point. The only thing semi close to canon had Superman winning. Firestorm also beat Molecule Man in that crossover. I'm sure crossovers are a great source of information.
Originally posted by JBL
When the hell did superman catch a FULL POWER hammer swing from Thor??? Hulk was getting ready to overpower superman very quickly. Hulk has KOED a far more powerful superman with one shot. Superman is above most all heavy hitters in Marvel?? BS. Ask Venom that question. Marvel has plenty supermen and many of them would stomp superman.
In the crossovers, Superman dropped Juggernaut and made him cry in pain(sucker punch or not), beat the ****ing **** out of Hulk like a redheaded step child (crying about fan voted in 3, 2--), beat Jean, caught a charged Mjolnir from a disadvantaged position before KTFO Thor from the same disadvantaged position, beat Jean Grey, Superman Blue beat both the founding lineups of the JLA and Avengers simultaneously (energy powers, but hey he was weaker than his normal powers), and more. But yes, let's focus on him doing poorly against Venom because your argument falls apart otherwise.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Not to mention it being against the rules.
The OP posted Superman/Juggernaut from the crossover and said it continues from there. So how much do the rules apply in this situation? Just the crossovers that were canon? Just the DC VS MARVEL related ones? Just that one series?
Originally posted by JBL
I didn't bring up superman tanking hulks blows or superman catching thors hammer did I??? Guess it's ok to use crossovers when it's used to say superman wins. So-calledTanking hulks blows and catching that hammer happened in a crossover.
Quit playing the victim. If I were "just using crossovers where Superman wins" I'd be using SUPERMAN VS INCREDIBLE HULK or whatever the name was. Hulk looks good in the initial fight when Superman didn't know what to expect, but then gets embarrassed twice. But everything about that says not canon, unlike the examples I cited which range from plausible canon to were confirmed (at least for their time).
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaSign!! Superman could not even bust through that force field in that same book. He was hitting it as hard as he could but was doing NOTHING!! It took thors hammer to bust through. Juggernaut shield took a full power hammer swing and it didn't even tickle juggernaut. Really simple to understand.Superman doesn't need to match Thor using Mjolnir, when he can easily no-sell him, even as Thor exploits his weakness to magic.
Superman would smash the shields with a single punch, and end up accidentally batting his head off like Superboy Prime did to Pantha.
Thor > Jugg's, and Superman >>> Thor