MUI Goku vs IG Thanos

Originally posted by Galan007
Maybe he thinks that because Goku figured out how to counter Hit's time-skip, that he is now "faster than time" across the board.

He's probably one of the people who believes that Jiren has blanket immunity to ALL temporal attacks, just because he broke free of Hit's time cage, lol.

As I mentioned above, he's throwing around this hysterically nonsensical non-logic like it's supposed to mean something here. I just can't...

Hit's time-skip has a built-in weakness in the fact that more powerful his opponent is, the shorter his time-skip becomes...

That's a weakness of Hit's power, not an advantage of Jiren against Time-based powers.

I agree with you Galan007.

Precisely right. 👆

But stupid as it seems, those are fairly common tropes I've seen from some of the more avid Goku/Jiren dick-riders supporters. It is a horribly flawed 'logic' in every sense of the word, but some have a very difficult time seeing past their own bias in cases like this. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Precisely right. 👆

But stupid as it seems, those are fairly common tropes I've seen from some of the more avid Goku/Jiren dick-riders supporters. It is a horribly flawed 'logic' in every sense of the word, but some have a very difficult time seeing past their own bias in cases like this. /shrug

I don't get how it's hard to understand how those powers works.

IIRC Whis' explanations gave no room to interpretation.

DB characters bypass hax abilities by being "More powerful"

It would be similar to the IG going against the HOTU. HOTU can overpower the IG even though the users for both have full control of reality.

So basically one would need to argue MUI Goku having more raw power than the IG in order for Goku to actually win this.

Originally posted by bbrem123
DB characters bypass hax abilities by being "More powerful"

It would be similar to the IG going against the HOTU. HOTU can overpower the IG even though the users for both have full control of reality.

So basically one would need to argue MUI Goku having more raw power than the IG in order for Goku to actually win this.

Yep but it doesn't make sense because Goku's own abilities doesn't affect the different aspects of reality like the IG does.

Goku's supporters in this, pretend that Goku's raw power can overcome reality warping via raw power which doesn't make sense for the following reasons:

1) The IG's abilities aren't countered via raw power itself.

2) Only similar abilities of reality warping, like the Beyonders powers which was both a superior raw power and the power to manipulate the reality was able to overcome the IG.

3) Goku's power is inferior to the IG itself, that thing can warp an entire reality without effort and is said to be limitless, Goku isn't.

4) Goku has no reality warping abilities.

^ There's also the fact that not even LT, acting in his full capacity as TOAA's representative, knew if he was powerful enough to take the IG from Warlock by force... Which tells us that IF LT is more powerful than the IG, the difference is marginal AT BEST.

IOW, you literally need someone =/> LT himself to even have a shot at legitimately defeating the IG. Beings that powerful are few and far between, and Goku is certainly not one of them.

How does Goku even fight Thanos? Thanos, if not deliberately weakening himself so he can fight h2h with Captain America, is basically an omnipresent abstract entity at this point. Goku might as well try destroying the color orange. Is Goku going to just erase all of reality? Character opinions that Z fighters can "shake the universe" =/= being able to destroy an infinite multiverse, lol.

Like, the ways Thanos could win this fight are literally infinite. Example: he could create a phantom Frieza and have Goku waste all of his energy trying to fight him.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ There's also the fact that not even LT, acting in his full capacity as TOAA's representative, knew if he was powerful enough to take the IG from Warlock by force... Which tells us that IF LT is more powerful than the IG, the difference is marginal AT BEST.

IOW, you literally need someone =/> LT himself to even have a shot at legitimately defeating the IG. Beings that powerful are few and far between, and Goku is certainly not one of them.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How does Goku even fight Thanos? Thanos, if not deliberately weakening himself so he can fight h2h with Captain America, is basically an omnipresent abstract entity at this point. Goku might as well try destroying the color orange. Is Goku going to just erase all of reality? Character opinions that Z fighters can "shake the universe" =/= being able to destroy an infinite multiverse, lol.

Like, the ways Thanos could win this fight are literally infinite. Example: he could create a phantom Frieza and have Goku waste all of his energy trying to fight him.

👆

Originally posted by Astner
Because Thanos had intentionally limited his power in that scene, if you look at the full page we can see Thanos restoring his power in the bottom right panel.

In fact when he depowered himself he strictly imposed extrasensory limitations.

I don't think you're understanding what I mean here. My point is that Thanos wouldn't be able to stop Goku because Goku could blitz him before he could do anything.

Just like I believe many speedsters would snag it from him. Sensory input be dammed, Thanos can't do anything in a forum setting where he is rendered null until the fight starts, if his opponent is fast enough to stop him from using his powers.

What good will it do him to know that Goku will take the glove, if he can't do anything until the fight starts, meaning that Goku, or any high-tier speedster by that measure(like Flash, or even Silver Surfer if he was able to react to his own speed), could snag it off him before he can react?

The assertion that Galan is making here is that Thanos has infinite reaction speed with the IG, which is simply untrue and baseless.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ There's also the fact that not even LT, acting in his full capacity as TOAA's representative, knew if he was powerful enough to take the IG from Warlock by force... Which tells us that IF LT is more powerful than the IG, the difference is marginal AT BEST.

IOW, you literally need someone =/> LT himself to even have a shot at legitimately defeating the IG. Beings that powerful are few and far between, and Goku is certainly not one of them.

Did I assert, even once, that MUI Goku is going to overpower the gauntlet here? No, so stop talking out of your ass. If you're not even going to take the time to read what I'm saying here, then stop replying. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Maybe he thinks that because Goku figured out how to counter Hit's time-skip, that he is now "faster than time" across the board.

He's probably one of the people who believes that Jiren has blanket immunity to ALL temporal attacks, just because he broke free of Hit's time cage, lol.

As I mentioned above, he's throwing around this hysterically nonsensical non-logic like it's supposed to mean something here. I just can't...

Goku in a weaker form managed to blitz Hit even THROUGH time stop. Not counter it, he simply outsped it. In terms of combat, Goku when going all out has shown capable of moving at nearly limitless speeds. Never said that makes him "faster than time across the board". One clearly doesn't need to be faster than time to blitz IG Thanos anyways. Sensory input be dammed, if Thanos had the infinite reaction speed you're claiming, he would have never been in danger of SS snagging the IG in the first place, even IF he didn't know that he would try to. Imagine if you give Krillin omniscience, and he knows what Jiren will do in a fight against him. Omniscience be dammed, Krillin won't land a single hit, because Jiren can STILL react to everything he does with eons(from his perspective) of time to spare. The same principal applies here.

I never said that either. It's clear that Jiren, along with most characters in DBZ because of the nature of the way their powers operate, has a resistance to temporal manipulation, but it's not very impressive compared to someone like Thanos.

That's not what I said, however. Instead of putting words in my mouth, how about you read what I posted, and then reply, instead of pseudo-replying to what you think will be an easier argument to shrug off?

You still haven't answered my question- What feats does Thanos have of reacting to someone moving at the kind of speeds MUI Goku can? The feat of SS almost snagging the gauntlet shows that someone moving FTL(not MFTL+++, lmao), is more than capable of doing so if they can react to things at that speed as well.

Since MFTL speeds are above Thanos with the IG, what would stop a character like Wally West from grabbing it off of him before he can use it? Nothing.

I'm simply making that same argument for Goku.

1. What speedsters can do to a depowered Thanos is irrelevant because he's not depowered here.

2. There is no comparison between Hit's time manipulation and the Infinity Gauntlet's absolute mastery of space, time, and reality to an extent greater than the literal conscious embodiment of space and time.

3. While Goku and move and react pretty quickly, Thanos can move and react infinitely quickly, given that he's everywhere at once and can amp himself to infinite levels of speed and power, or otherwise just not be physically present to Goku in the first place.

4. Thanos could just clone Goku and have him train for an arbitrary amount of time in a pocket timeline before coming to oneshot the Goku he's fighting, make Goku fight phantom versions of Frieza until he runs out of energy, or do any number of possible ways to f*ck with him given that Goku has been outwitted and impacted by such situations before and Thanos with the IG is essentially infinitely intelligent.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
1. What speedsters can do to a depowered Thanos is irrelevant because he's not depowered here.

2. There is no comparison between Hit's time manipulation and the Infinity Gauntlet's absolute mastery of space, time, and reality to an extent greater than the literal conscious embodiment of space and time.

3. While Goku and move and react pretty quickly, Thanos can move and react infinitely quickly, given that he's everywhere at once and can amp himself to infinite levels of speed and power, or otherwise just not be physically present to Goku in the first place.

4. Thanos could just clone Goku and have him train for an arbitrary amount of time in a pocket timeline before coming to oneshot the Goku he's fighting, make Goku fight phantom versions of Frieza until he runs out of energy, or do any number of possible ways to f*ck with him given that Goku has been outwitted and impacted by such situations before and Thanos with the IG is essentially infinitely intelligent.

Even though I have you on ignore, I felt an inclination to pick apart this idiotic little post you've come up with.

1. Thanos wasn't depowered in the SS showing either- he just didn't have sensory input, IOW's.

2. Never said there was.

3. No he can't, lmao. Without literal omniscience, Thanos couldn't even react to SS flying to try and snag the IG from him. With omniscience, things play differently in comics. In a forum fight, where the first planck instant that passes decides the entire fight, omniscience will literally do nothing for him.

4. Sure, to a version of Goku that couldn't blitz him. Which this one can. Making everything you just said irrelevant.

Now I'll ask you the same question I asked Galan- show a scan of Thanos wielding the IG which demonstrates combat speed better than MFTL and moving through stopped time(instantaneous travel, or close to it). If you can't then he demonstrably has no defense against an outright blitz from speedsters like Wally West, SA Supe's, UI Goku, etc. SA Supe's could only do it after accelerating, but he could still do it(flew faster than infinity, whatever that means).

KK SSJB Goku outpaced time itself, IOW's, according to angels and other beings we look to for definition of source material in DB. While still not nearly as impressive as Wally's feat, it is in the same ballpark considering they both outpaced time itself.

Post a single instance of IG Thanos coping with a scenario like this, and I'll concede. He admitted on panel that he would have lost everything, had SS succeeded in snagging the gauntlet, instead of not being able to perceive what was happening while moving at his own full speed. Meaning that if someone could move accurately at that speed, Thanos would have the gauntlet snatched off of his hand. Before you type out, "Oh well he didn't have his sensory input, he does here.", understand that this does absolutely nothing for him in this forum scenario, where Goku would be close enough to take advantage of his superior combat speed and snag the gauntlet before Thanos could even react.

The infinity gauntlet gives Thanos nigh-unlimited control over and perspective on time and space.

It isn't just a glove that lets him blow up universes and know everything, it elevates him to a level transcending the anthropomorphic personifications of the universe/multiverse. You seem to think that Goku can just take the gauntlet from Thanos before he can process a thought, but the gems allow Thanos' thoughts to transcend time, space, reality, thought, and the soul. He can observe time and space as an outsider, and influence it thus.

Goku's speed is frankly irrelevant. Speed is just distance, or space, divided by time. Thanos has total perception and control over both of those domains.

You could make it DBS vs. Thanos and Thanos would still win. It wouldn't even be close.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The infinity gauntlet gives Thanos nigh-unlimited control over and perspective on time and space.

It isn't just a glove that lets him blow up universes and know everything, it elevates him to a level transcending the anthropomorphic personifications of the universe/multiverse. You seem to think that Goku can just take the gauntlet from Thanos before he can process a thought, but the gems allow Thanos' thoughts to transcend time, space, reality, thought, and the soul. He can observe time and space as an outsider, and influence it thus.

Goku's speed is frankly irrelevant. Speed is just distance, or space, divided by time. Thanos has total perception and control over both of those domains.

You could make it DBS vs. Thanos and Thanos would still win. It wouldn't even be close.

That's the best post you have made, honestly.

I fully agree with it.

@NemBro 👆

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta 1. Thanos wasn't depowered in the SS showing either- he just didn't have sensory input, IOW's.

lolwut

"he wasn't depowered, except that he was"

Yeah, I’m not sure what this notion is that the extrasensory input is just for omniscience...Thanos literally turned off not just his omniscience, but his nigh-omnipresence and complete control over time/space/reality/soul. As soon as the bell rings, the fight is over.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The infinity gauntlet gives Thanos nigh-unlimited control over and perspective on time and space.

It isn't just a glove that lets him blow up universes and know everything, it elevates him to a level transcending the anthropomorphic personifications of the universe/multiverse. You seem to think that Goku can just take the gauntlet from Thanos before he can process a thought, but the gems allow Thanos' thoughts to transcend time, space, reality, thought, and the soul. He can observe time and space as an outsider, and influence it thus.

Goku's speed is frankly irrelevant. Speed is just distance, or space, divided by time. Thanos has total perception and control over both of those domains.

You could make it DBS vs. Thanos and Thanos would still win. It wouldn't even be close.

Already acknowledged this. The fact remains that he has limits, and without the gems sensory input, he was blitzed by Silver Surfer. The ENTIRE point of my post is that said sensory input will not matter in this forum setting where they begin the fight and Goku could potentially just snag it while moving at 100% from the get-go

If Goku can outpace someone while time around him was locally stopped, then I'm fairly certain he can blitz someone who could have been defeated by a blitz from Silver Surfer.

If not, show me a scan of something happening akin to this scenario. I can show plenty of scans of IG users being blitzed or defeated by exploitation of gaps in the gauntlets powers.

Am I saying Goku could overpower IG Thanos? No. Am I saying he could resist the IG or its power? No. I'm simply stating that here, in a forum setting where the two start off close to each other and can't do anything until the fight starts, Goku could potentially win in this kind of a quickdraw scenario. Same way I would argue that Wally West could snag the gauntlet in this scenario, before Thanos could even do a single thing.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S7wgqS4IZfk/VoTjxEpJ0II/AAAAAAAAXUY/H3FfF6iOgnc/s1600-Ic42/RCO027.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fFfLSFolnk0/VoTjxI7IBxI/AAAAAAAAXUY/dQDTxlLihZc/s1600-Ic42/RCO028.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qOiNriDqDEs/VoTjxNCnEyI/AAAAAAAAXUY/egewMzZcLK4/s1600-Ic42/RCO029.jpg

Originally posted by One Big Mob
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S7wgqS4IZfk/VoTjxEpJ0II/AAAAAAAAXUY/H3FfF6iOgnc/s1600-Ic42/RCO027.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fFfLSFolnk0/VoTjxI7IBxI/AAAAAAAAXUY/dQDTxlLihZc/s1600-Ic42/RCO028.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qOiNriDqDEs/VoTjxNCnEyI/AAAAAAAAXUY/egewMzZcLK4/s1600-Ic42/RCO029.jpg

Thanos tricked Mephisto with one of the countless ways he could have done so. That entire exchange could have been an illusion.

Otherwise, Thanos wouldn't have acknowledged that SS would have defeated him by snagging the gauntlet off of him. Very simple explanation to that scene, that you're somehow missing. Thanos even openly admits that he tricked Mephisto into thinking he was vulnerable. Mephisto even stated that the assault was metaphysical, meaning the entire thing was probably an illusion, lmao.

If someone takes the gauntlet from him, Thanos loses its powers. It's very simple. In a forum setting like this, it won't be hard for many speedsters or characters with extremely accurate MFTL movement to take the gauntlet and render Thanos back to normal.

SSJGGogeta clogging up another thread with his bullshit. 🙄

Thanos wins. anyone with a brain knows this.