TLJ Kylo and Rey vs. TPM Qui-Gon and Kenobi

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I believe my friend that you haven't watched the Phantom Menace.

Obi Wan out-speed, outmaneuvered, out-powered, and out-smarted Maul. It was only Maul's force-push that caught Obi Wan offguarded.

In the end Maul was defeated.

And no, Qui Gon's fighting style was inadequate for Close Quarter's combat style. Maul had the advantage.

You need to educate yourself, go and watch the fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp91xlsaKSo

Other than the final maneuver than led to Obi Wan's victory, he only landed one kick on Darth Maul. ONE. How does that show he out-sped, out-maneuvered, out-smarted, or out-powered Darth Maul? Nothing in Obi-Wan's technique gave him an advantage over Maul.

Obi Wan's final maneuver caught Darth Maul by surprise as he was already assured of his victory and had let his guard down. That's how Obi Wan got his victory.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You need to educate yourself, go and watch the fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp91xlsaKSo

Other than the final maneuver than led to Obi Wan's victory, he only landed one kick on Darth Maul. ONE. How does that show he out-sped, out-maneuvered, out-smarted, or out-powered Darth Maul? Nothing in Obi-Wan's technique gave him an advantage over Maul.

Obi Wan's final maneuver caught Darth Maul by surprise as he was already assured of his victory and had let his guard down. That's how Obi Wan got his victory.

😂

Maul was on the defensive. His twin blade was destroyed and he was forced to withdraw. Obi Wan had him outpowered and outmaneouvered.

The only thing that had Maul standing was his incredible acrobatics.

Yet in the end, he was OUT-SMARTED.

Obi Wan is superior to Maul, and this is not for debate.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
😂

Maul was on the defensive. His twin blade was destroyed and he was forced to withdraw. Obi Wan had him outpowered and outmaneouvered.

The only thing that had Maul standing was his incredible acrobatics.

Yet in the end, he was OUT-SMARTED.

Obi Wan is superior to Maul, and this is not for debate.

Defensive? Maul being on the top of a ledge while Obi Wan hung for his life is what you call Maul being defensive? My my, you need to learn what that word means.

If Qui Gon hadn't left his lightsaber lying around Obi Wan would have been dead.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
It was only Maul's force-push that caught Obi Wan offguarded.

Caught off guard in the middle of a fight? Riiigght..

Remember Anakin and Obi-Wan intercepting each other’s Force push?

The fact that Obi-Wan didnt anticipate Mauls push, therefore made no attempt to block it, just shows he was being outfought by the superior combatant.

Qui-Gon and Ben win the day here.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Defensive? Maul being on the top of a ledge while Obi Wan hung for his life is what you call Maul being defensive? My my, you need to learn what that word means.

If Qui Gon hadn't left his lightsaber lying around Obi Wan would have been dead.

And you based the entire fight in one scene!? Please!

The Force Push was Maul's only outstanding thing. He was losing the saber duel!

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Caught off guard in the middle of a fight? Riiigght..

Remember Anakin and Obi-Wan intercepting each other’s Force push?

The fact that Obi-Wan didnt anticipate Mauls push, therefore made no attempt to block it, just shows he was being outfought by the superior combatant.

No, it just proves that PM Obi Wan was still unexperienced and lacked focused. Doesn't mean Maul is better.

Maul is inferior to Obi Wan. He lost his twin blade and was force to play defensive.

In the end, Obi Wan proved to be the better fighter.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

1) No, it just proves that PM Obi Wan was still unexperienced and lacked focused. Doesn't mean Maul is better.

2) Maul is inferior to Obi Wan. He lost his twin blade and was force to play defensive.

3) In the end, Obi Wan proved to be the better fighter.

1) His inexperience and lack of focus makes him Inferior to Maul.

2) Maul lost half of his weapon, Obi-Wan lost his entire weapon. Maul comes off better again.

3) How? By depending on blind luck that Qui-Gons weapon happened to be lying there and which Maul Just completely forgot about?

Maul was clearly the superior warrior in TPM. Obi-Wan Just began to display his full potential by coming going toe to toe for a short while, and taking advantage of a specific rare circumstance to come out on top.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
1) His inexperience and lack of focus makes him Inferior to Maul.

2) Maul lost half of his weapon, Obi-Wan lost his entire weapon. Maul comes off better again.

3) How? By depending on blind luck that Qui-Gons weapon happened to be lying there and which Maul Just completely forgot about?

Maul was clearly the superior warrior in TPM. Obi-Wan Just began to display his full potential by coming going toe to toe for a short while, and taking advantage of a specific rare circumstance to come out on top.

1) In wisdom, not in saber skills.

2) Maul was forced to use Force Push to do so! Maul clearly knew he was in the disadvantage! And he still got sliced in half in the end!

3) By jumping 3m high while passing over Maul and at the same time TK the saber, only to then fall and slice Maul in half!

Maul was overwhelmed and was forced to use Force powers, which was futile since he still lost.

Obi Wan is the better fighter, whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1) In wisdom, not in saber skills.

2) Maul was forced to use Force Push to do so! Maul clearly knew he was in the disadvantage! And he still got sliced in half in the end!

3) By jumping 3m high while passing over Maul and at the same time TK the saber, only to then fall and slice Maul in half!

Maul was overwhelmed and was forced to use Force powers, which was futile since he still lost.

Obi Wan is the better fighter, whether you like it or not.

1) Maul was wiser? What? Id say Obi-WAns final move would suggest way more wisdom than cocky Maul who assumed the fight was already over.

2) Speculative nonesense. Thats like saying Obi-Wan was FORCED to force push Grievous in ROTS.
Maul landed multiple kicks on Obi-Wan throughout the fight as well. He wasnt FORCED to do anything. He pushes Obi-Wan back in a Saber lock then Just force pushes as his finishing move. Maul was simply outfighting him.

3) Maul allowed him to do that because he had no idea Obi-Wan had a weapon.

Yes clearly Obi-Wan was better which is why he had to rely on a Fallen Jedis weapon being there. And he was so much better that he couldnt keep up with the fight earlier to give his Master much needed back up.

Heck Obi-Wan was so much better that after 10+ years more experience, and Maul not fighting at all, Obi-Wan still fails to outright defeat Maul in TCW. Its in fact 30 years post TPM that Ben Kenobi can outright defeat Maul and finally be shown to be his outright superior.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
And you based the entire fight in one scene!? Please!

The Force Push was Maul's only outstanding thing. He was losing the saber duel!

Ok, let's consider the entire fight shall we? Maul fought 2 opponents, Obi Wan only fought 1 opponent. At the end battle, Obi Wan was able to rest before fighting Maul whereas Maul had just finished a vigorous fight against Qui Gon. Obi Wan landed one kick, Maul landed multiple kicks and a force push. Maul lost half his weapon, Obi Wan lost his entire weapon.

So now you tell me, who actually seems to have had the upper hand in that fight? Both were going on the defense and offense sporadically throughout the fight, there was never any time when one of them was completely being purely defensive.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok, let's consider the entire fight shall we? Maul fought 2 opponents, Obi Wan only fought 1 opponent. At the end battle, Obi Wan was able to rest before fighting Maul whereas Maul had just finished a vigorous fight against Qui Gon. Obi Wan landed one kick, Maul landed multiple kicks and a force push. Maul lost half his weapon, Obi Wan lost his entire weapon.

So now you tell me, who actually seems to have had the upper hand in that fight? Both were going on the defense and offense sporadically throughout the fight, there was never any time when one of them was completely being purely defensive.

Yet Obi Wan was a padawan and considerably younger and less experienced than Maul. He can also be considered in less shape/condition than Maul!

Also, it's irrelevant to say that Maul was tired, since he was fighting Obi Wan the same way he was fighting Qui Gon. Isn't like he was slower or tired.

Let's put it this way

Maul never used force push on Qui Gon? Why? Because he never felt the need too, yet somehow against a PADAWAN he decides to do so. It's evident Maul was feeling in the need to do it.

Maul knew that Obi Wan was fighting better.

In the end it doesn't matter. Maul was defeated. He proved not to be able to predict Obi Wan's intentions, just like Anakin and Grievous did.

Obi Wan is a far superior fighter than Maul, and this has been proven over and over again in the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yet Obi Wan was a padawan and considerably younger and less experienced than Maul. He can also be considered in less shape/condition than Maul!

Also, it's irrelevant to say that Maul was tired, since he was fighting Obi Wan the same way he was fighting Qui Gon. Isn't like he was slower or tired.

[B] Let's put it this way

Maul never used force push on Qui Gon? Why? Because he never felt the need too, yet somehow against a PADAWAN he decides to do so. It's evident Maul was feeling in the need to do it.

Maul knew that Obi Wan was fighting better.

In the end it doesn't matter. Maul was defeated. He proved not to be able to predict Obi Wan's intentions, just like Anakin and Grievous did.

Obi Wan is a far superior fighter than Maul, and this has been proven over and over again in the Clone Wars. [/B]

Except Obi Wan only won via using a force pull. He didn't win via pure sword skills. So your claims are baseless. If Obi Wan was as good as you think then Maul shouldn't have been able to fight off him and Qui Gon together.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Except Obi Wan only won via using a force pull. He didn't win via pure sword skills. So your claims are baseless. If Obi Wan was as good as you think then Maul shouldn't have been able to fight off him and Qui Gon together.

No, he won by slicing Maul in half with Qui Gon's lightsaber in hand.

Conclusion:

Maul couldn't block the attack nor was he able to predict Kenobi's attack, therefore Obi Wan makes a better fighter.

Maybe Obi Wan wasn't as focused and determined to defeat him, thing that easily changed the moment Maul murdered his master.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
This can clearly be noticed, since Obi Wan was able to defeat Maul due to having a different fighting style to Qui Gon's.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No, he won by slicing Maul in half with Qui Gon's lightsaber in hand.

Conclusion:

Maul couldn't block the attack nor was he able to predict Kenobi's attack, therefore Obi Wan makes a better fighter.

Maybe Obi Wan wasn't as focused and determined to defeat him, thing that easily changed the moment Maul murdered his master.

Let me ask you something, if Qui Gon's lightsaber wasn't lying around, do you think Obi Wan would have won that fight?

From the screenplay:

"OBI-WAN screams as the pulsing electron gate opens, and the SITH LORD attacks him. The DARK LORD is relentless in his assault on the young JEDI. OBI-WAN and DARTH MAUL use the Force to fling objects at each other as they fight. DARTH MAUL seems to have the upper hand as OBI-WAN grows weary. DARTH MAUL catches OBI-WAN off guard, and the JEDI slips into a melting pit."

From the novel:

Originally posted by FrothByte
Let me ask you something, if Qui Gon's lightsaber wasn't lying around, do you think Obi Wan would have won that fight?

No, yet he did.

Now let me ask you something. If that pit wouldn't have been there, would Maul have defeated Obi Wan?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No, yet he did.

Now let me ask you something. If that pit wouldn't have been there, would Maul have defeated Obi Wan?

There is nothing to suggest Obi Wan was better, the complete opposite in fact. Even when he caught Maul off guard with his initial outburst Maul was still able to weather it fairly well

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No, yet he did.

Now let me ask you something. If that pit wouldn't have been there, would Maul have defeated Obi Wan?

Which means it wasn't Obi's skill that granted him the win, it was circumstance. As you yourself admit that he wouldn't have beaten Maul if it had only been the two of them with only 1 lightsaber each.

And yes, in an open arena straight one on one fight, Maul would have killed Obi Wan.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander

Now let me ask you something. If that pit wouldn't have been there, would Maul have defeated Obi Wan?

Given he already disarmed Obi-Wan Before Obi-Wan fell down the pit, the answer to your question would be an obvious YES.

And btw, that was the 2nd time Maul sent Obi-Wan flying disarming him. The first time Qui-Gon was there to save his skin. The 2nd time Qui-Gons Saber saved him.