Snoke and the First Order

Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from some of the other, more esoteric, things he accomplished in the Unknown Regions

We don't know how that turned out. Maybe he went in with a crew and became the first person to luckily survive (albeit with some marks), and then just by pure coincidence stumbled onto the power which he now has. This is a common plot device.

Snoke succeeded in saving the Empire from imminent obliteration, and forging it into the First Order

I thought Rae Sloane did that. All he did was save the First Order from death. Yeah, he helped them survive, but it's not like he was a founding member. He himself says that it turned out the way it did majorly out of coincidence.

He succeeded in building an immense military, and immense super-weapons to go with it.

Project Resurrection was not created, overseen, or engaged by Snoke, and Starkiller Base was Hux's thing. He didn't even care that it exploded.

He succeeded in destroying the New Republic's capital worlds, and sending legions of the FO off to conquer other key worlds... Snoke struck such a death blow to the Republic, in fact, that as of TLJ he was set to completely overthrow the Republic(and moreover the galaxy itself) in a matter of weeks.

When the Republic was weaker than ever. The books go out of their way to show how much the new republic struggled. There was no centralized military, each planet had its own, and there were power vacuums all over the place. It's not like the republic would have been hard to defeat at that time.

...But then, in his hubris, Snoke allowed himself to be merc'd by Kylo(a mediocre apprentice), and essentially handed him the reigns to the FO in its entirety -- a failure so complete that it would have sickened Palpatine to his core, imo.

This wasn't a one-time mistake. This was part of a larger error. He was wrong about being Kylo's puppeteer. He thought Kylo would do whatever he wanted Kylo to do, be his B!tch, basically. And he was, for the first few years. He did what he was told, didn't think, and said "the Supreme Leader is wise" whenever that fact was questioned. Then, at the end of The Force Awakens, Kylo overcomes this, and makes his own decision for once in his life, asking Rey to join him against Snoke. Snoke doesn't sense this, doesn't do anything about it, and doesn't even realize that Palpatine was very careful to avoid this kind of thing. And the whole idea to recruit Kylo was a mistake from the start, plus the want to kill Luke Skywalker. Literally EVERY aspect of that plan was flawed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The extent of Snoke's military build up is hard to determine. Fry wrote one of the companion books to TLJ as well, incredible Vehicles or some such. It states that the FO owes much to the various shipyards and military installations Sheev seeded throughout the Unknown Regions.

And for what it's worth: Fry himself thinks it would have been a bad idea for Snoke to attract the Emperor's attention.

(Very last question.)

👆

Originally posted by Zentrex

When the Republic was weaker than ever. The books go out of their way to show how much the new republic struggled. There was no centralized military, each planet had its own, and there were power vacuums all over the place. It's not like the republic would have been hard to defeat at that time.

SOOOO STUPID!

WHY New Republic! Y YOU DO DAT?! Y YOU NO LEARN?!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The extent of Snoke's military build up is hard to determine. Fry wrote one of the companion books to TLJ as well, incredible Vehicles or some such. It states that the FO owes much to the various shipyards and military installations Sheev seeded throughout the Unknown Regions.

And for what it's worth: Fry himself thinks it would have been a bad idea for Snoke to attract the Emperor's attention.

(Very last question.)

Originally posted by Zenwolf
SOOOO STUPID!

WHY New Republic! Y YOU DO DAT?! Y YOU NO LEARN?!

Mon Mothma made that decision. Kind of out of nowhere, imo

Originally posted by Zentrex
Mon Mothma made that decision. Kind of out of nowhere, imo

No! No! Bad Mon Mothma! Security is important!

Originally posted by Zentrex
We don't know how that turned out. Maybe he went in with a crew and became the first person to luckily survive (albeit with some marks), and then just by pure coincidence stumbled onto the power which he now has. This is a common plot device.

"For Sidious knew that the galaxy's knowledge of the Force had come from those long-abandoned, half-legendary star systems, and that great truths awaited rediscovery among them. Truths that Snoke had learned and made to serve his own ends."

-TLJ

Originally posted by Zentrex
All he did was save the First Order from death. Yeah, he helped them survive, but it's not like he was a founding member.

"Grasping in the dark among strange stars, they had come perilously close to destruction, and it had not been military might that saved them. It had been knowledge--Snoke's knowledge."

-TLJ

So far as we know, Snoke's greatest(arguably only) success was saving the Imperial remnants from imminent obliteration, and guiding/building it into the immensity that the First Order eventually became... Still though, he owes much of the aforementioned prosperity to the foresight/contingencies of Palpatine -- which I stated in my very first post.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Starkiller Base was Hux's thing. He didn't even care that it exploded.

Moreover, there were suggestions that Snoke might be hiding even more sinister weapons than Starkiller Base in the Unknown Regions:

"The Resistance had known the First Order was building warships and armies in the Unknown Regions, beyond the galactic frontier. General Organa had sent a steady stream of holographic footage and intelligence data providing evidence for that conclusion to New Republic senators, hoping to batter down the galactic government’s stubborn insistence that reports of a First Order military buildup were at best a figment of the general's imagination and at worst exaggerations. But a capital ship of that size? That was worse than the darkest imaginings of the Resistance's intelligence analysts. So was Starkiller Base. What else has Snoke been hiding out there?"

-TLJ

Originally posted by Zentrex
When the Republic was weaker than ever.

I will, however, give credit where credit is due -- and Snoke does deserve *some* credit.

Originally posted by Zentrex
This wasn't a one-time mistake. This was part of a larger error. He was wrong about being Kylo's puppeteer. He thought Kylo would do whatever he wanted Kylo to do, be his B!tch, basically. And he was, for the first few years. He did what he was told, didn't think, and said "the Supreme Leader is wise" whenever that fact was questioned. Then, at the end of The Force Awakens, Kylo overcomes this, and makes his own decision for once in his life, asking Rey to join him against Snoke. Snoke doesn't sense this, doesn't do anything about it, and doesn't even realize that Palpatine was very careful to avoid this kind of thing. And the whole idea to recruit Kylo was a mistake from the start, plus the want to kill Luke Skywalker. Literally EVERY aspect of that plan was flawed.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
No! No! Bad Mon Mothma! Security is important!

What happened to you ?

Originally posted by Galan007
I'd rather not speculate. At this point, I only know what we have been told -- and what we were told is that Snoke had learned/mastered knowledge of the force that not even Palpatine was aware of:

There's no need to unjustly diminish Snoke. It's clear that without his knowledge/power, the Empire(and First Order) would have never survived in the Unknown Regions, period:

So far as we know, Snoke's greatest(arguably only) success was saving the Imperial remnants from imminent obliteration, and guiding/building it into the immensity that the First Order eventually became... Still though, he owes much of the aforementioned prosperity to the foresight/contingencies of Palpatine -- which I stated in my very first post.

Why would he care? The weapon did everything he needed it to do in that moment: it destroyed the capital worlds of the New Republic, and struck a death-blow to the galaxy itself(leaving it ripe to be conquered in a matter of weeks, as of TLJ.)

Moreover, there were suggestions that Snoke might be hiding even more sinister weapons than Starkiller Base in the Unknown Regions:

And that changes what I said... How? You seem to be under the impression that I am trying to give Snoke undo credit here, lol... I can assure you, that is definitely not the case.

I will, however, give credit where credit is due -- and Snoke does deserve *some* credit.

Seems like you're typing a lot just to essentially agree with points I already made, lol. Kylo was indeed Snoke's greatest failure... Not just because Snoke failed to foresee Kylo's [obvious] betrayal, but because Kylo himself was a mediocre apprentice at best.

Oh. Well, yeah. He did save the first order from death. Doesn't not make him a failure in my eyes, but whatever. He IS powerful, knowledgable, influencial, and capable.

Originally posted by Zentrex
What happened to you ?

Hm? What ya mean?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The extent of Snoke's military build up is hard to determine. Fry wrote one of the companion books to TLJ as well, incredible Vehicles or some such. It states that the FO owes much to the various shipyards and military installations Sheev seeded throughout the Unknown Regions.

And for what it's worth: Fry himself thinks it would have been a bad idea for Snoke to attract the Emperor's attention.

(Very last question.)

Interesting concept, Snoke being the Saruman to Sidious' Sauron.

Don't you dare compare Wankatine to Sauron.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Hm? What ya mean?

You're talking like Jar Jar. I don't remember you being like this.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Don't you dare compare Wankatine to Sauron.

Yeah don't compare a loser like Sauron to The Emperor.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Interesting concept, Snoke being the Saruman to Sidious' Sauron.

That's an interesting way to think about it. I can see what you mean by that.

Originally posted by Zentrex
You're talking like Jar Jar. I don't remember you being like this.

Ah, sorry but I just really, REALLY dislike what the new Canon did in regards to the New Republic and Jedi Order. It just feels so very wrong, things should move forward, not back.

Originally posted by Trocity
Yeah don't compare a loser like Sauron to The Emperor.

Sauron is better than Palps. Sorry.

Maybe too strong a word, but the movie ignores practically everything TFA set.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ah, sorry but I just really, REALLY dislike what the new Canon did in regards to the New Republic and Jedi Order. It just feels so very wrong, things should move forward, not back.