I agree that the Sidious quotes where he's the greatest should only apply to characters that exist at the time, as opposed to the characters that retroactively existed at the time.
Otherwise it writes them into a corner and they can never surpass Sidious no matter what they do. Character destroys another galaxy? Sub Sidious level.
The issue is, no one has actually written a Sith above Sidious yet. So even if his claims were faulty (which the reasons in this thread are the most pathetic shit ever), who is actually written higher than Sidious? There's only one who comes close and he's not Exar Kunt.
Ancient Power seems like this forum's Carver9
Originally posted by The Ellimist
"Darth Bandon, who had far surpassed Exar Kun in power, could not hold a candle to a teenage Mara Jade, let alone Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history by both Force power and combative ability" - Leland Chee's Ultimate Legends Sourcebook
Looks legit.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
"Darth Bandon, who had far surpassed Exar Kun in power, could not hold a candle to a teenage Mara Jade, let alone Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history by both Force power and combative ability" - Leland Chee's Ultimate Legends Sourcebook
"Leeland Chee is a ****** **********." - George Lucas, Rolling Stone interview, 2009
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I agree that the Sidious quotes where he's the greatest should only apply to characters that exist at the time, as opposed to the characters that retroactively existed at the time.Otherwise it writes them into a corner and they can never surpass Sidious no matter what they do. Character destroys another galaxy? Sub Sidious level.
The issue is, no one has actually written a Sith above Sidious yet. So even if his claims were faulty (which the reasons in this thread are the most pathetic shit ever), who is actually written higher than Sidious? There's only one who comes close and he's not Exar Kunt.
Ancient Power seems like this forum's Carver9
And I hope there never is a sith introduced who is more powerful than Darth Sidious. I understand the star wars universe can expand quite greatly and do things which seem stupid at first but then become intrinsic parts of the lore. But the main story of star wars, in my opinion, shouldn't be insulted like that.
Thus, I have no problem with them writing themselves into that limitation, because I'd be glad to never see a non-god darksider more powerful than Sidious.
Originally posted by ZentrexI'm not saying that I want more to be introduced, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense for statements to apply retroactively to characters introduced after that statement.
And I hope there never is a sith introduced who is more powerful than Darth Sidious. I understand the star wars universe can expand quite greatly and do things which seem stupid at first but then become intrinsic parts of the lore. But the main story of star wars, in my opinion, shouldn't be insulted like that.Thus, I have no problem with them writing themselves into that limitation, because I'd be glad to never see a non-god darksider more powerful than Sidious.
Sheev should be more powerful based on what he's done, not because a statement was made 2 years before the character was created. Unless that statement can directly correlate in some way or another.
If a writer wants to create some shitty nonsense character more powerful, the avenue should be there. Darth Omnipotent exists for a story and destroys a different galaxy for example, before dying from choking on a piece of corn. As dumb as that sounds, the option should be open (though handled with more tact), and the statement shouldn't apply to him. Otherwise you get into even worse scaling arguments.
That being said, it is refreshing to see Sheev being the top Sith Puppy still. Other "universes" like to shit all over the prior lore in an effort to one up or just piss off everyone (A little black girl is now way smarter than Reed Richards and Dr Doom for example).
Hell, Sheev still continues to rack up feats and he died a few decades ago.
Originally posted by Zentrex
And I hope there never is a sith introduced who is more powerful than Darth Sidious. I understand the star wars universe can expand quite greatly and do things which seem stupid at first but then become intrinsic parts of the lore. But the main story of star wars, in my opinion, shouldn't be insulted like that.Thus, I have no problem with them writing themselves into that limitation, because I'd be glad to never see a non-god darksider more powerful than Sidious.
So you like the taste of Sheev's balls and his salty semen?
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I'm not saying that I want more to be introduced, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense for statements to apply retroactively to characters introduced after that statement.Sheev should be more powerful based on what he's done, not because a statement was made 2 years before the character was created. Unless that statement can directly correlate in some way or another.
If a writer wants to create some shitty nonsense character more powerful, the avenue should be there. Darth Omnipotent exists for a story and destroys a different galaxy for example, before dying from choking on a piece of corn. As dumb as that sounds, the option should be open (though handled with more tact), and the statement shouldn't apply to him. Otherwise you get into even worse scaling arguments.
That being said, it is refreshing to see Sheev being the top Sith Puppy still. Other "universes" like to shit all over the prior lore in an effort to one up or just piss off everyone (A little black girl is now way smarter than Reed Richards and Dr Doom for example).
Hell, Sheev still continues to rack up feats and he died a few decades ago.
Darth Sidious is nonsense in terms of feats.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
"Darth Bandon, who had far surpassed Exar Kun in power, could not hold a candle to a teenage Mara Jade, let alone Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history by both Force power and combative ability" - Leland Chee's Ultimate Legends Sourcebook
Although it is a statement. It is also retarded. Therefore Lee is retarded. Or he did it for Sheev's balls.
Originally posted by MythLord
"With the galaxy now ripe for conquest, the Emperor has become the most powerful Sith Lord of all and a master of the Dark Side of the Force, ordering the extermination of the Jedi Order with the aid of his apprentice, the deadly Darth Vader."
-- Legends Epic Collection: The Empire Volume 1
"Yoda was a master at masking his emotions, but not even he could hide them from the greatest Sith Lord ever known."
-- Clone Wars: Wild Space
"Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh."
-- RotS novelI mean, even if you "debunk" all of them and prove they aren't 100% concrete, there's still so many of them, across so many sources and so many eras of Star Wars writing that they are obviously pointing to a certain theme. That theme being: Palpatine is the MVP.
Because Star Wars is about Luke, Anakin, Yoda and Palpatine? Even the EU. If some high ranking authority were to say openly that X>these characters. Then, they'd be more important than Lucas' characters.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I'm not saying that I want more to be introduced, I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense for statements to apply retroactively to characters introduced after that statement.Sheev should be more powerful based on what he's done, not because a statement was made 2 years before the character was created. Unless that statement can directly correlate in some way or another.
If a writer wants to create some shitty nonsense character more powerful, the avenue should be there. Darth Omnipotent exists for a story and destroys a different galaxy for example, before dying from choking on a piece of corn. As dumb as that sounds, the option should be open (though handled with more tact), and the statement shouldn't apply to him. Otherwise you get into even worse scaling arguments.
That being said, it is refreshing to see Sheev being the top Sith Puppy still. Other "universes" like to shit all over the prior lore in an effort to one up or just piss off everyone (A little black girl is now way smarter than Reed Richards and Dr Doom for example).
Hell, Sheev still continues to rack up feats and he died a few decades ago.
Well, in the case of Sidious's accolades I think that their relevance doesn't end when new characters are added because the position of Sidious as the top is thematically relevant regardless of exactly which set of characters from past eras have been described. (Also what would be the point of such accolades if they get called into question as soon as someone publishes a book a few months later?)
Originally posted by MythLord
"With the galaxy now ripe for conquest, the Emperor has become the most powerful Sith Lord of all and a master of the Dark Side of the Force, ordering the extermination of the Jedi Order with the aid of his apprentice, the deadly Darth Vader."
-- Legends Epic Collection: The Empire Volume 1
Which doesn't at all imply that this refers to all of history.
Originally posted by MythLord
"Yoda was a master at masking his emotions, but not even he could hide them from the greatest Sith Lord ever known."
-- Clone Wars: Wild Space
Greatest =! Most powerful
More importantly, this was a novel set in TCW's TV canon, it has no bearing on what was formerly C-canon.
Originally posted by MythLord
"Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh."
-- RotS novel
None of this says Sheev is the most powerful Sith Lord ever or of all-time. 😬
Originally posted by MythLord
I mean, even if you "debunk" all of them and prove they aren't 100% concrete, there's still so many of them, across so many sources and so many eras of Star Wars writing that they are obviously pointing to a certain theme. That theme being: Palpatine is the MVP.
I don't care if you think that there's a 'certain theme'.
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
--The Complete Visual Dictionary
When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
--Insider #86: Yoda's Right Arm
Emperor Zaarin? The idea isn't as ludicrous as it sounds. Demetrius Zaarin gambled everything on an audacious coup d'état and nearly killed the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy has ever known.
--Insider #66: Who's Who: Imperial Grand Admirals
And what of the Emperor? He was mighty in the Force, perhaps the mightiest being who has ever lived.
--Galaxy Guide 5: Return of the Jedi
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well, in the case of Sidious's accolades I think that their relevance doesn't end when new characters are added because the position of Sidious as the top is thematically relevant regardless of exactly which set of characters from past eras have been described. (Also what would be the point of such accolades if they get called into question as soon as someone publishes a book a few months later?)
This is the specific version of why writers keep sucking up Lucas' characters' balls.