Originally posted by Galan007
Linear running isn't the only time a force-user's perception/reaction capacities can become heightened, lol. But again, you're welcome to disagree -- doesn't change the end result, nor is it something I care to debate with you beyond this.And this changes anything I said... How?
Why do you insist in popping-into nearly every thread and arguing for the sake of arguing?
1. Because you are clearly trying to hype Luke's speed feats based on Leia's perceptions.
2. Same answer.
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd...Which is a logical assumption based on the perception/reaction/overall speed we know Leia had access to at the time. You're welcome to disagree -- doesn't matter to me either way.
1. Because you are clearly trying to hype Luke's speed feats based on Leia's perceptions.
But again: I'm not going to discuss this with you any further. There is simply no need to derail this thread your "yes-huh" and "nuh-uh" banter. 🙂
Originally posted by Freedon NaddSame answer as what, lol?
2. Same answer.
Are nonsensical posts just your 'thing' or..? ermm
What is nonsensical?
Both 1 and 2 were addressed to your 1 and 2 points.
As I said you hype Luke based on Leia's perception. And then you use her Force speed feats(max increased perceptions) to compare with her weak perceptions(which are not at maximum level)
That's not how it works. It's like saying Kun is faster than Ulic because he appeared as a blur to all of them during the Trial of Ulic.
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
I think we both do. You are just doing a comparison of feats. I am not saying you are 'wrong' that Luke is as fast as Palpatine. All I am saying is the reason you use to justify that claim.Yes, I do believe Luke=Sidious=Plagueis in Force speed.
Just that your argument is not applicable.
His main argument is that the audiodrama tells us that Luke beat Palpatine without Leia's assistance. That dueling has nothing to do with whether or not Leia can perceive the duel. You have yet to address this, and that's why he has been confused by your responses.
Heck, your counter-argument just serves to help Luke in this match up. Luke being hindered on the Eclipse, and still beating Palpatine, who is stated to be stronger than ever, without Leia boosting him, puts Luke>>>Plagueis
Originally posted by Underachiever59
His main argument is that the audiodrama tells us that Luke beat Palpatine without Leia's assistance. That dueling has nothing to do with whether or not Leia can perceive the duel. You have yet to address this, and that's why he has been confused by your responses.Heck, your counter-argument just serves to help Luke in this match up. Luke being hindered on the Eclipse, and still beating Palpatine, who is stated to be stronger than ever, without Leia boosting him, puts Luke>>>Plagueis
Luke is as fast as Palpatine.
I just said that his argument with Leia's perceptiona to support Luke's speed is a fallacy. Understand now?
Leia: "They're both moving so fast I can hardly see them... I can sense waves of power -- the dark side and the light. But I feel... The light is winning!"
*Immediately afterward Luke overpowers and 'disarms' Palpatine(literally).*
Soon thereafter, Palpatine manifests a Force Storm and begins annihilating the entire fleet... Only then was Leia finally stated to have amped Luke.
Luke: "The power you've unleashed... Even you can't control it!"
Leia: "But WE can, Luke -- WE can do it! That's what the Holocron meant. Let me add my power to yours!"
-Dark Empire Audio Drama
DE Luke is in no way in the same league with Palpatine. Leia was actively unlocking Luke's potential to much higher (if not full) capacity. He beat Sidious in sabers only due to this fact and was still outclassed in the Force.
Plagueis wins.
Yeah, in Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force, it is noted that even a Luke who had had his potential unlocked realized he couldn't defeat the Emperor alone. IIRC, Luke even stated in the Dark Empire II audio drama that Leia and co. had only seen a fraction of the Emperor's power, despite them being witnesses to the Force Storm he unleashed on Da Soocha V.
Originally posted by SiniousAs mentioned, the DE audio drama explicitly states that Leia only began amping Luke after he had already bested Palpatine in sabers.
DE Luke is in no way in the same league with Palpatine. Leia was actively unlocking Luke's potential to much higher (if not full) capacity. He beat Sidious in sabers only due to this fact and was still outclassed in the Force.
That's all I/we were saying. 🙂
Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, in Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force, it is noted that even a Luke who had had his potential unlocked realized he couldn't defeat the Emperor alone. IIRC, Luke even stated in the Dark Empire II audio drama that Leia and co. had only seen a fraction of the Emperor's power, despite them being witnesses to the Force Storm he unleashed on Da Soocha V.
Because he had the ability to create Force storms? And these Force storms are independent of his power.
Originally posted by Galan007So what? Leia amping Luke after the duel doesn’t cancel out the fact that his potential was being unlocked before the fight. As you can see in my first post, the primary source makes it clear that Luke’s potential was being unlocked by Leia. This is what makes sense the most anyway, since Luke was quickly defeated by Palpatine in their other duel. Not to mention the information provided by Az that further establishes this as fact.
As mentioned, the DE audio drama explicitly states that Leia only began amping Luke after he had already bested Palpatine in sabers.That's all I/we were saying. 🙂