He stopped fighting at the mention of the word "Martha". Seriously, all Clark had to do was hover there, non-threateningly, explain the situation (could even drop his mom's name, as it wouldn't be out of place to do so either), and things could have gone way differently. But instead he chose to aggressively walk towards Bruce, who was already mistrustful of his intentions, without clarifying what Bruce "didn't understand". Basically, instead of acting like adults, they decided to act like high school jocks instead.
An idiotic plan doesn't become less idiotic simply because the people who fell for it acted even more idiotic.
Bruce could clearly see Clark wasn't trying to fight. Had Supes wanted to, he could have lasered him from afar, or rushed him as full speed and pulverized his insides(GAYYYYY) and Bruce knew this. He was well aware of what he was capable of. Not to mention the whole "stand down" comment showing he didn't want to do the whole fisty cuffs.
I agree Clark could have approached it WAYYYYYYY differently but perhaps that can be chalked up to his duress. Bruce OTOH was dead set on straight up cold blooded murder. Who knows if Martha would have snapped him out of his rage at that point
Originally posted by Silent Master
His plan was to get two people to fight each other by lying to them, that isn't elaborate. that you believe it was, says a lot about you.
A simple plan that works is being a good strategist though. Why pull off an elaborate plan when a single one does the trick?
You just raised Luthor's stock.
Originally posted by juggerman
Bruce could clearly see Clark wasn't trying to fight. Had Supes wanted to, he could have lasered him from afar, or rushed him as full speed and pulverized his insides(GAYYYYY) and Bruce knew this. He was well aware of what he was capable of. Not to mention the whole "stand down" comment showing he didn't want to do the whole fisty cuffs.I agree Clark could have approached it WAYYYYYYY differently but perhaps that can be chalked up to his duress. Bruce OTOH was dead set on straight up cold blooded murder. Who knows if Martha would have snapped him out of his rage at that point
The point is that a different approach could have lead to a vastly different result. The way Clark chose to approach him basically guaranteed that Batman, given his mindset at the time, would attack him. And that's ignoring all the other retarded shit that lead up to that moment. The premise of their fight was so flimsy that they had to release an extended cut with more footage, just to try and do damage control. And the name stopped him at the point of murdering Clark, so don't see why it wouldn't have had an impact before that moment.
And this is all made 10 times worse by Batman's complete heel turn in the next film, literally doing a complete 180 from going "if there is a small chance he is bad, we need to kill him" to "if there is even a small chance we can get him back, we need to risk it".
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The point is that a different approach could have lead to a vastly different result. The way Clark chose to approach him basically guaranteed that Batman, given his mindset at the time, would attack him. And that's ignoring all the other retarded shit that lead up to that moment. The premise of their fight was so flimsy that they had to release an extended cut with more footage, just to try and do damage control. And the name stopped him at the point of murdering Clark, so don't see why it wouldn't have had an impact before that moment.And this is all made 10 times worse by Batman's complete heel turn in the next film, literally doing a complete 180 from going "if there is a small chance he is bad, we need to kill him" to "if there is even a small chance we can get him back, we need to risk it".
I agree that a different approach may have resulted in a different result but Clark also didn't know Batman's mindset. He didn't know Bruce had been planning his murderous rampage for months. He knew he was angry but that's really it. And the reason why it might not have worked there as it did later is that Bruce had won, in his mind it was over. All the training, all the planning had brought him his victory. At that moment he wasn't as "driven" imo because he had done it. You have a completely different mindset before a fight than immediately following one.
I think a "heel turn" is when you go from a good guy to a bad guy. Bruce would have made a "face turn". Or maybe you meant he turned on his heels?
Originally posted by juggerman
I agree that a different approach may have resulted in a different result but Clark also didn't know Batman's mindset. He didn't know Bruce had been planning his murderous rampage for months. He knew he was angry but that's really it. And the reason why it might not have worked there as it did later is that Bruce had won, in his mind it was over. All the training, all the planning had brought him his victory. At that moment he wasn't as "driven" imo because he had done it. You have a completely different mindset before a fight than immediately following one.
Well, will have to agree to disagree there. Because I think that whole situation could have been handled in a WAY better fashion, and that both those guys acted extremely stupidly throughout the movie, which is the only reason Lex's plan worked IMO.
Originally posted by juggerman
I think a "heel turn" is when you go from a good guy to a bad guy. Bruce would have made a "face turn". Or maybe you meant he turned on his heels?
No, I mean it in a negative way. Though maybe heel turn isn't the best phrase. Because, IMO, he went from bad to worse. Because not only is the stance just as retarded in its extremeness as the previous one, it's also massively hypocritical in light of it. Sure, it worked out in the end. But for all he knew, they could have ended up with Doomsday 2.0.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, will have to agree to disagree there. Because I think that whole situation could have been handled in a WAY better fashion, and that both those guys acted extremely stupidly throughout the movie, which is the only reason Lex's plan worked IMO.
No we agree that it could have been handled better by both parties. I'm just not sure that "Martha" would have changed anything in the beginning of the fight. Batman wasn't really in a listening mood
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, I mean it in a negative way. Though maybe heel turn isn't the best phrase. Because, IMO, he went from bad to worse. Because not only is the stance just as retarded in its extremeness as the previous one, it's also massively hypocritical in light of it. Sure, it worked out in the end. But for all he knew, they could have ended up with Doomsday 2.0.
Gotcha
Originally posted by Bentley
A simple plan that works is being a good strategist though. Why pull off an elaborate plan when a single one does the trick?You just raised Luthor's stock.
His simple plan ended with him being in jail, Thanos' plan ended with him winning and in possession of a universal level weapon.
How does that raise Luthor's stock?
Originally posted by Silent Master
His simple plan ended with him being in jail, Thanos' plan ended with him winning and in possession of a universal level weapon.How does that raise Luthor's stock?
Simple plan only failed because of a tall coincidence. Thanos has been honing his complex scheme for years and got a huge number of enemies on doing so.
We are talking about overall strategy, results can vary on unpredictability ... And Thanos only added to that factor. He got lucky.
Originally posted by Bentley
Simple plan only failed because of a tall coincidence. Thanos has been honing his complex scheme for years and got a huge number of enemies on doing so.We are talking about overall strategy, results can vary on unpredictability ... And Thanos only added to that factor. He got lucky.
Which would you rather happen, 1) go to jail or 2) Get away with it?
Originally posted by BentleyThe dude won every single time according to Strange save one out of 14,000,605 times using the time stone while you say lucky. You’re an idiot. For ****s sake quit being trolly. Thanos is the best villain cinema has ever seen.
Simple plan only failed because of a tall coincidence. Thanos has been honing his complex scheme for years and got a huge number of enemies on doing so.We are talking about overall strategy, results can vary on unpredictability ... And Thanos only added to that factor. He got lucky.